Help with value of 1883 Hammerless

[FireChief]

I am brand new to this Forum, but I hope that you folks can help me help a WWII Veteran from the Firehouse.
He has owned this 1883 Colt Hammerless 10 GA for many years.
It has 30" barrels, fine damascus barrels, and is fully engraved with hunting scenes.
It is all original, but the stock had cracked and has been repaired.
There is also a small ding in one barrel. The bores are incredibly smooth, clean and shiny.
He does not know the value, and is inclined to sell it at this point in his life.
What do you think of the shotgun, and what could he expect to sell it for?

Thanks,
FireChief

[FireChief]

More Pictures;Colt 1883 Hammerless 022.jpgColt 1883 Hammerless 005.jpgColt 1883 Hammerless 006.jpgColt 1883 Hammerless 009.jpgColt 1883 Hammerless 012.jpg

[dfariswheel]

Trying to place a value on an antique gun that has damage is difficult.
First, condition is everything. Guns are typically valued by how much of the original factory finish is still intact.

The 1883 was made in as primarily custom order guns. A custom order model will have a higher price.
Almost all 1883 shotguns were custom order guns and they were extremely high quality firearms, one of the most expensive made at that time, which is why only about 3,000 were ever made.
Unfortunately, the only way to find this out is to buy an Archive letter from Colt.
Colt asks the serial number and then does a hand search of the original Colt factory records for that specific gun.
For an 1883 shotgun, the Archive letter costs $100.00 and takes a few months to get.
This letter will list everything Colt knows about the gun as it was shipped from the factory, and WHO it was shipped to.
If the gun was a custom order the letter will state that and say what the custom features were.

Colt's Manufacturing Company LLC > Customer Services > Archive Services

The Blue Book of Gun Values shows the following values for a Colt 1883:
The low end is a gun with only 10% original finish at a value around $875.
A gun in 30%...$1,100.
A gun in 50%...$1,650.
A gun in 80%...$2,675.
These numbers will likely be higher today.

Due to the high quality and limited numbers made, collectors have interest in these guns.
Note that since they are antique guns with Damascus barrels, they aren't safe to be fired, especially with modern ammo.
In addition, the chambers are usually too short for use with modern 2 3/4" shells.
Any potential buyer has to be told in no uncertain terms that's it not safe to shoot, no matter how good the mechanical shape is.

[FireChief]

Thank you very much for your prompt reply. I will ask him if he would like to invest $100.00 in a Colt Letter.
I collect German Daggers, and have seen Damascus blades, are these barrels real Damascus, and made the same way?

Also, is it generally a good idea to spend the money on these letters?
I ask because he also has an 1860 Army, and a Bisley from the early 1900's.
Would a $300.00 letter be worth it on the pistols?

Thanks,
FireChief

[dfariswheel]

The barrels are real Damascus "twist" steel.
The process was similar to knives, but used twisted and welded wire or strips of steel as the laminations.
The danger with these is that corrosion can start between the inner and outer walls of the barrel and fatally weaken the barrels without leaving any signs inside or out.
The barrels can sudden rupture with catastrophic results. The fact that someone has been shooting the gun makes no difference. People can play Russian Roulette for a time also.

Second, these Damascus guns were made during a time of black powder. They had no idea that smokeless powder would be invented, and that it would be much higher pressure and would blow the Damascus barrels.

As for factory letters, an Archive letter may or may not be of value to the owner. In the case of the shotgun, it probably will add value since it will probably show the gun as a custom order and who ordered it. As I said, a custom 1883 would have a higher value to a collector of fine grade shotguns.

The 1860 would probably not be worth it, since the Archive would probably just show it being shipped to the US government.

The Bisley might be worth it. The Bisley often seemed to get shipped to interesting places or people, but there's no guarantee it might just show as being shipped to a big hardware store.

Whether the letters would be of any benefit to the seller depends on who the buyer is. Many buyers won't care what the letter shows, but a collector of the Bisley or 1883 shotguns would probably want to see the letter before buying to be sure that's it's original.

[johnk568]

Howdy,

Believe what faris says, and I would get a Colt letter for all three guns. I currently own a 1878 Hammered Colt SXS and got a Colt letter. It comes on heavy paper suitable for framing and describes the gun and where it was shipped to. My friend bought a Colt Peacemaker from a gun shop for $1200.00, got the letter from Colt. It was shipped to a "Pawnee Bill". This was Wild Bill Cody's partner in the Wild West Shows and sold it at action for $16,000.00

johnk568

[FireChief]

Thanks for the info.
I talked to the owner today, and for $100.00, he told me to get the letter for the 1883 Hammerless, so I will order one soon.
I suppose we will talk about the other two, but Colt does want $300.00 each for the letters on a pistol!


FireChief

[Collects]

Why don't you post a For Sale ad here on Coltforum when your friend is ready to sell? I bet some of our members would love to own that fine old piece of history. Please thank your friend for me, for his selfless service in WWII.

[FireChief]

Thanks, I do intend to list it here, as I also think that one of the members here would really appreciate this fine Colt shotgun.
I will tell you this, those Damascus barrels are really a joy to look at! The patterns in the steel are really something!
I think that I will get the letter first, and then list it here.
The trick then is what to ask for it, but I will come up with something.

FireChief

[FireChief]

I got the Colt Letter, and listed it in the For Sale Section, so please take a look.
But I do not understand the Colt Letter.
It says that the gun was shipped in 1879 with 28" barrels in 12 GA.
The gun I have is a model 1883 Hammerless (not yet made in 1879?) and it is currently a 10 Ga with 30" barrels.
The letter also lists a subsequint shppment in 1890.
Could this 1883 Hammerless have been made in 1879, then shipped back to Colt in 1890 for a conversion to 30" barrels in 10 GA?
OR, could this have been made as a Hammer gun in 1879, shipped out in 1879, then shipped back to Colt and converted to a hammerless 10 GA in 1890?

What do you guys think?

FireChief