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Colt 1877 Stampings

3K views 13 replies 6 participants last post by  Abwehr 
#1 ·
I finally finished one of my 1877 projects, a .41 Long Colt with matching serial numbers made in 1886. There is a A stamped on the trigger guard, behind the trigger. I thought the caliber was stamped there. There is no markings on the barrel and it has the standard two line address on the top. Any ideas what the A means?
 

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#4 ·
I suspect that Blackjack33 is correct though my 1891 Lightning does not have a similar mark on the left rear bow. I looked a few on Gunbroker - often the photos make it difficult to see small details like a stamp - and some show a caliber marking there, some don't have any mark, and some seem to have something there. It does seem to be a common place for a Colt inspector's mark; my 2 3rd gen SAAs, a .22 Scout Buntline, a .22 Peacemaker, and a 2nd gen SAA trigger guard all have similar stamps on the left rear bow. However my 1883 SAA only has a caliber stamp on the left front bow.

The Clifford Mills book on the Lightning/Thunderer says that a star, asterisk, or ampersand on the right rear bow indicates a factory re-work.
 
#6 ·
From what I have seen, the "A" stamp on the left rear trigger guard bow was first used in the 55,000 serial number range and discontinued before the 70,000 serial number range. Have only seen this on .41 caliber guns. Late production guns have no stamp in that area. Maybe the 41CAL stamp was broke or was lost. Most likely an employee who was working on another model Colt was pulled off that production line and put on the 1877 line. He would then simply do what he was doing on the other line if no one told him otherwise. You can see this on early 1877's in the 1200 to 1700 serial number range. Instead of the front sights being half round in shape, they are shaped like a Single Action front sight. This would occur if an employee was taken of the SA assembly line and put on the 1877 line and did not know the shape of the sight was to be different. Since not all 1877's in that serial number range have the SA shaped sight and those that do were not special order, there would be no other explanation as to why they were different.
 
#7 ·
Thanks, where did you find that information? My primary expertise is Iver Johnson, so I am lacking knowledge when it comes to Colt. I have two more that I need to fix, now that the bug has bitten me again. I would work on them for awhile and when I couldn't figure something out, I would work on an Iver Johnson.

I have always been fond of the 1877, and have tried to collect as much information that I could find. I have Clifford Mills book, is there another book out there?
 
#11 · (Edited)
I have been collecting 1877's and 1878's for more than 30 years. I also run a business of repairing and restoring those revolvers. The information I supplied is based on what I have seen and worked on over the years. I now collect only the unusual revolvers, those with a distinct difference from standard production or those sent to a special person or place. The 55,000 serial number range 1877 I have with the "A" an the trigger guard also has a very extremely rare feature. It has a "Fluted frame". There were a few Single Actions that had this feature but I have only seen two 1877's with it. The other one is an engraved 1877 owned by forum member elliotf and engraved by Phil Quigley. I fire blued the small parts on it. It also has an "A" an the trigger guard. Photos of that gun are on the forum here - http://www.coltforum.com/forums/colt-revolvers/73485-engraved-1887-model-1877-38-lightning.html

If the factory ran out of ejectorless frames, they would take a frame made for an ejector and remove the boss that it fit into. This would leave a dished out portion on the right side of the frame. To compensate and make the frame look even, they would mill the same dished depression on the left side of the frame. As I mentioned, there were a number of Single Actions with this rare feature and are much sought after by collectors. Photos of my 1877 with the fluted frame below.

Gun Firearm Revolver Trigger Gun barrel
Gun Firearm Revolver Trigger Starting pistol
Firearm Gun Revolver Trigger Starting pistol
Firearm Gun Revolver Trigger Starting pistol
 
#8 ·
I am not aware of any other books on the 1877. Since it has always been the "red headed stepchild" of the Colt family, the collector interest in the handgun has not been very big. I honestly like the little revolver and they sure have a great history with the old cowboys and bad guys like John Wesley Hardin, Billy the Kid and others. I sure would like to have a good book on them myself to know more about them. I currently have 12 of them and all are in working order.
 
#9 ·
If you have seen the movie "Maverick" with Mel Gibson, you would have seen a model 1877 carried by James Garner (The marshall that stole the money). At the end of the game, one of the characters pulls a derringer and Gibson pulls the 1877 out of Garner's holster and blasts away at the bad guys. Garner carried it in a crossdraw holster on his left side. One of the few movies I've seen where an 1877 actually gets fired. Hard to tell, but I think the shots were fired in double action! Garner's other sidearm appears to have been a nickel plated Remington.
 
#10 ·
Val Kilmer as Doc Holiday fired his frequently in tombstone. He fired it rapidly at the OK Corral shootout. Emilio Estevez as Billy the Kid also used one in Young Guns. When they were in the McSween house he can be seen firing it out the window in rapid succession. Apparently they used a .38 Long Colt since the blanks were easier to make. I heard both movies had a gunsmith on standby on both movies to keep them working.
 
#12 ·
Thanks, I feel there is not enough information about the Model 1877 out there compared to the Model 1873, and that is a shame. Have you considered documenting your knowledge in a book? You have a intimate knowledge of the 1877 and there are people out there like me who are interested in learning more about this model. Clifford Mills book is nice, but it does not go into great detail about the models and variations that you have discovered over the years.

I would have never noticed the fluted frame, any idea how many were made?
 
#13 · (Edited)
I have no Idea on how many were made. Since I have only seen two and no other collector I know has ever seen any, probably just an occasional factory creation unlike the 1878 and SAA Sheriff Models with the flutes on both sides of the frame. A few years back a guy named Bruce Skinner was writing a book on 1877's. He had collected extensive research and had a few photos of guns from my collection he was going to use in the book. He took over the project after another individual died while writing it. Bruce also died a few years later and the book was never completed. I tried with a good friend of mine, Bob Farrar, to get what Bruce had from his widow to continue it but she would not give it up. I later learned that she threw it all away! My friend Bob then also died never having his dream fulfilled to see the 1877's in his personal collection also part of the book. Writing a book on them would take much research time and spending weeks at Colt going thru the archives to make sure everything that would be written was accurate. I do not have that kind of time and it almost seems there is a curse on anyone wanting to write a book on 1877's. There is another individual named Russell Withem who is trying to write a book about them now.
 
#14 ·
I have no Idea on how many were made. Since I have only seen two and no other collector I know has ever seen any, probably just an occasional factory creation unlike the 1878 and SAA Sheriff Models with the flutes on both sides of the frame. A few years back a guy named Bruce Skinner was writing a book on 1877's. He had collected extensive research and had a few photos of guns from my collection he was going to use in the book. He took over the project after another individual died while writing it. Bruce also died a few years later and the book was never completed. I tried with a good friend of mine, Bob Farrar, to get what he had from his widow to continue it but she would not give it up. I later learned that she threw it all away! My friend Bob then also died never having his dream fulfilled to see the 1877's in his personal collection also part of the book. Writing a book on them would take much research time and spending weeks at Colt going thru the archives to make sure everything that would be written was accurate. I do not have that kind of time and it almost seems there is a curse on anyone wanting to write a book on 1877's. There is another individual named Russell Withem who is trying to write a book about them now.
Russ is a member of this Forum. I have bought one 1877 from him and some parts. He is one heck of a nice guy. I sure hope he can write a book on them as I really like the little revolver. I would be glad to help out anyway I could, and I know all the guys on the Forum would help too!!!
 
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