Colt Police Positive .38 transitional model

[twaits]

Can anyone give me any more info on this revolver?
I dated it to 1908 through Wilsons book. (sorry the pics kind of
suck)
The barrel is marked Colt Police Positive .38 and on the sideplate it
is marked "Colt New Police". I think I read that this was a transitional
model from the New Police to the Police Positive (or vise versa)
I picked it up a little while ago for $150. I love these PPs. They
are still such a bargin. The finish is a little worn on this one but inside
it is still like new and it's tight as a bank vault. The fire blue on the hammer and
trigger is still brilliant.

-Erik

[aerosick]

From Colt Firearms {From 1836} by James E. Serven page 250, 251

Colt New Police Revolvers

A rampant colt encircled by the words COLT'S NEW POLICE were stamped on the frame plate.

(Is this the way yours is?)

Colt's "New Police" revolvers were introduced in 1896. A target model was brought out in 1897. Both were discontinued in 1905 and succeeded by the "Police Positive" model. The total number manufactured is relatively small.

New Police Calibers:

.32 Colt, short and long
.32 S&W, short and long
.32 New Police

(In the Colt 1911 catalog, the Colt Police Positive was offered in the added Colt and Smith & Wesson .38 calibers)

The barrel lengths were: 2-1/2", 4" and 6". Your barrel length looks like my 3-1/2" Pocket Positive.

Billy

[twaits]

Thanks Billy,

Mine does indeed say "Colts New Police" on the sideplate. It also says Police Positive .38 on the barrel. I'm thinking thats why this is considered a transitional model. Maybe they were using up these sideplates on the Police Positives in the early guns. Anyone else have any input?

Erik

[aerosick]

Erik,

What's your barrel length?

Billy

[twaits]

The length of the barrel is 4 inches.

Here's the rest of the info:

Top of barrel markings

"COLT'S PT FA MFG CO HARTFORD CT USA
PAT'D AUG 5 1884 JUNE 5 1900 JULY 4 1905"

"COLT'S NEW POLICE" on sideplate w/ rampant colt

"COLT PolicePositive 38" on barrel.


serial number 21487

This dates the gun to 1908 with the numbers starting at 18000 for that year and 27000 for 1909. (according to R.L. Wilsons' Colt book...is he out of prison yet?)

[mike hudson]

just a shot in the dark bight mightn't someone, over the past 100 years or so, someone have fitted a police positive barrel and cylinder onto an existing new police revolver? seems somewhat more likely than colt selling a gun with two different model names stampted on it.

[up196]

Twaits, does your revolver have the positive lock for the hammer? If it does, then it's a Police Positive and not a New Police, as that was the primary difference between the two.

The frame countor at the triggerguard looks more like the Police Positive, too.

[twaits]

Forgive my ignorance but how do I tell if the hammer has positive lock?

[twaits]

just a shot in the dark bight mightn't someone, over the past 100 years or so, someone have fitted a police positive barrel and cylinder onto an existing new police revolver? seems somewhat more likely than colt selling a gun with two different model names stampted on it.

Mike,

I'm pretty sure this is original. I wish I knew where I read it but I think I read that the early PPs had both "New Police" and PP stampings.
The New Police was discontinued in 1907 and this one was made in 1908
so it seems possible. Colt wasn't known to be very wasteful (remember Colt SAAs made with leftover long flute DA cylinders) so they may have used leftover NP sideplates.

According to the Standard Catalog of Colt:

"Except for the 1.25 inch cylinder (instead of 1.63 inches), this (colt Police Positive) is externally the same as the New Police with the addition of the positive lock feature and the two new chamberings..."

-Erik

[A1A]

Perhaps the reference that you (and I) recalled was the comments in TBOCF wrt the New Police to Pocket Positive transition: "Transition barrels have been noted having markings associated with both models, and the circular NEW POLICE stamping on the left side of the frame was retained for four years after that model had been discontinued. Colt's was never known for throwing out old parts if they could be used somehow. This facet of Colt's production practices has been documented from the Peterson period, and to a notable extent accounts for many unusual variations encountered by arms collectors".