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  1. #1
    Senior Member charlene is on a distinguished road

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    Frontier Scout with .22LR barrel and 22 Magnum cylinder

    Buckspen / anyone else-

    Please take a look at the following:


    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=138600832


    I just recently read Don Wilkerson’s book on Scouts, Peacemakers and New Frontiers. I then came across the above gunbroker listing which featured an F suffix blued Frontier Scout with “.22 L.R.” marked barrel but which featured a 22 magnum unfluted cylinder in addition to the 22 LR cylinder. The ad description as originally posted did not identify the magnum cylinder as not being original to the gun, and stated that the gun was “rare with both cylinders”. I wrote to the seller to ask him about this. Our correspondence follows:


    ME: Are you saying that the .22 Magnum cylinder is original to this gun? I don't think it is.


    SELLER: R.Scott Meyer
    Nevada Western Firearms LLC
    www.nevadawesternfirearms.com
    It is original to the model series and they were available fluted or non fluted.It is a genuine Colt cylinder that was professionally fitted to this gun.The 22 mag cylinder is not original to this gun, but otherwise is 100% original from the same time period and made for this make and model by Colt..the 22 LR cylinder is original to this gun Thank You Scott Meyer
    775 5885416

    ME: Don't you think you should indicate that the .22 Magnum cylinder is not original to this gun rather than advertising that the gun is "rare with both cylinders"?

    SELLER: R.Scott Meyer
    Nevada Western Firearms LLC
    www.nevadawesternfirearms.com
    not really, as I have not mislead anyone..it is an original cylinder, but I will revise the text of my ad to reflect this possible discrepancy..it doesn't in anyway detract from the value of the gun and it is rare to find a Colt FS with both cylinders thank you scott

    [The following text was then inserted into the description]:

    “(the 22 mag cylinder is a genuine Colt and is original to this model and timeframe, however it is not original to this gun..it has been professionally fitted..the 22 LR IS original to this gun)”

    ME: Have you test fired the gun with .22 magnum ammunition? It is difficult to see clearly in the photos, but the barrel appears to be marked ".22 L.R.". Please note that in the Frontier Scout line of revolvers Colt had different bore diameter specifications for .22 Long Rifle barrels and .22 Magnum barrels. The bore on the .22 L.R. barrels is smaller than on the .22 Magnum barrels and according to Colt and other authorities on these revolvers, you should not fire .22 Magnum bullets through a .22 L.R. barrel due to the .22 magnum projectile being larger in diameter and usually copper jacketed. Both of these factors, combined with the much larger amount of slower burning powder in the .22 magnum cartridge tend to raise pressures excessively. Factory dual cylinder 22/22 mag convertible Frontier Scouts typically featured a barrel marked ".22 CAL.", which was made to the .22 Magnum barrel specs. The result is that while a .22 L.R. cylinder may be safely fitted to a gun marked ".22 Magnum" or ".22 CAL.", it may not be safe to use a .22 Magnum cylinder in a gun with a barrel marked ".22 L.R.". Even if the gun does not blow up (which I doubt very much it would) the margin of safety would certainly be reduced. Wear and tear would also be accelerated.

    SELLER: R.Scott Meyer
    Nevada Western Firearms LLC
    www.nevadawesternfirearms.com
    Sorry, but your information is totally false.
    You are completely wrong!
    No problem at all shooting 22 LR or 22 mag in this gun..it was designed to shoot both..For your information, many 22 SA revolvers come with both 22 LR and 22 mag cylinders..on the Colt FS, the barrel is always marked 22 LR..the cylinders are marked caliber specific.I don't know where you got your information, but it wasn't from Colt! I am a Colt dealer and know these guns quite well..you are misinformed.
    Thank You
    Scott Meyer


    So...Buckspen, can you shed any light on this? It seems to me that the seller is incorrect. Obviously not all Scouts were marked .22 LR, and it looks to me like someone has fitted a magnum cylinder from a Peacemaker 22 or New Frontier 22. Are you aware of any F suffix Frontier Scouts that had 22 LR marked barrels and unfluted 22 magnum cylinders, or any 22 magnum cylinders for that matter?

    -Thanks

  2. #2
    Senior Member Buckspen is on a distinguished road

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    Frontier Scout with Magnum Cylinder

    You are correct and the seller is wrong!

    Colt did introduce the .22 Magnum in the F series of guns in 1959. However, dual cylinder F series guns (ALWAYS marked .22 CAL) were not made until 1964. Prior to 1964, all .22 Magnum guns were marked .22 Magnum on the barrel and they had different internal barrel dimensions from the .22 LR guns.

    The seller of this gun does not give the serial number but says it was made in 1960. There were no dual cylinder guns in 1960. This guy doesn't know nearly as much as he thinks he does!

    Unfluted Magnum cylinders were not introduced until sometime after the intro of the Peacemaker 22/New Frontier 22.

    Therefore, this gun is not "rare" or even desirable. Someone has fitted a 1970's .22 Magnum cylinder to a 1960's gun. In my opinion, it would not be safe to shoot Magnums in this gun.

    I would not purchase this gun. If you want a dual cylinder gun, I would hold out for a decent and correct gun.

    - - Buckspen

  3. #3
    Senior Member Lawman67 is on a distinguished road

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    22/22mag Scout

    Buckspen is correct. This is a standard f frame 22lr revolver. Even if the 22 mag cylinder were correct for this revolver, I would not plan on shooting 22 mags out of it. it lacks the pinned barrel which appeared around 64, in response to the light frame 22s having the barrels shoot loose with 22lr ammo. I would hold out for a boxed original P series with heavier frame and pinned barrel or a K series nickel Scout. Better yet ,get a steel frame 22 Peacemaker.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Buckspen is on a distinguished road

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    My First Fontier Scout

    My first Fontier Scout was purchased in Oceanside (California) in 1963. It was a nickel K series .22 LR. This was long before I knew much about these revolvers (or even Colts in general) and was annoyed that the barrel kept unscrewing itself when I shot it. I finally traded it off for a Smith & Wesson K-22 which suited me better at the time. Now I have a safe bulging with Scouts, but I kind of wish I had that old gun back.
    If I were to buy a Scout to shoot the .22 Magnum, I would buy a later production F series (with pinned barrel) in that specific caliber. For a carry gun it would be significantly lighter than the K or P series or a Peacemaker 22.

    - - Buckspen

  5. #5
    Senior Member twaits will become famous soon enough

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    I noticed on the Gunbroker description he states 1960 as the year of production but on his website it is listed as 1966. Does this seller really have any idea what he has??
    Maybe next he'll offer a Single Action Army in .44 special with a "rare" extra .454 Casull cylinder

  6. #6
    Senior Member Buckspen is on a distinguished road

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    Frontier Scout with Magnum Cylinder

    That's interesting. I didn't look at the seller's web site before. It's hard to tell, but I don't think that is the same gun on his web site and in the GB auction. If it is, he is surely confused!
    The gun pictured in the GunBroker auction appears to be in nicer condition than the one on his web site. But, as I said, it's hard to be sure because of the poor lighting and the lack of close-up photos.
    The serial number given in the description of the gun on the web site would give a manufactured date of 1967. And he says the .22 Magnum cylinder is unfired but you can plainly see the front of the cylinder and the rings made by firing! If this gun is marked .22 CAL it would be a dual cylinder gun, but that unfluted cylinder is certainly not original.
    I think I would decline to deal with this fellow.

    - - Buckspen

  7. #7
    Senior Member sixgunshorty35717 is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buckspen View Post
    That's interesting. I didn't look at the seller's web site before. It's hard to tell, but I don't think that is the same gun on his web site and in the GB auction. If it is, he is surely confused!
    The gun pictured in the GunBroker auction appears to be in nicer condition than the one on his web site. But, as I said, it's hard to be sure because of the poor lighting and the lack of close-up photos.
    The serial number given in the description of the gun on the web site would give a manufactured date of 1967. And he says the .22 Magnum cylinder is unfired but you can plainly see the front of the cylinder and the rings made by firing! If this gun is marked .22 CAL it would be a dual cylinder gun, but that unfluted cylinder is certainly not original.
    I think I would decline to deal with this fellow.

    - - Buckspen
    It is NOT the same gun/..Seller Never said the magnum cylinder was unfired...
    Gunbroker ad was removed by seller pending further research
    Last edited by sixgunshorty35717; 09-02-2009 at 06:48 AM.

  8. #8
    Senior Member twaits will become famous soon enough

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    On second look I think you are right Buckspen. That might NOT be the same gun. It does say in his website ad that the magnum cylinder is unfired but clearly is not. Something's a little fishy here indeed...
    Last edited by twaits; 09-02-2009 at 09:01 AM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member charlene is on a distinguished road

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    I tend to agree with you, Buckspen, and I certainly will not be dealing with this guy. I had initially written to him as described above in an effort to see what the deal was with that cylinder. It did not seem original, and maybe not even safe, but I thought who knows, maybe it was some obscure variation. Don Wilkerson's book and your input have only confirmed my initial impressions.

    After the seller's last email to me above insisting that my information was totally wrong, I sent the following message back to him, citing Don Wilkerson's book and the discussion on this forum:

    ME: "I believe my information regarding the barrel markings and the magnum cylinder is correct. Please see Don Wilkerson's book "Scouts, Peacemakers and New Frontiers in 22 Caliber". Also please see the following link for a discussion of this subject by some very knowledgeable collectors of this model.
    http://www.coltforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22351"

    I left it at that and said nothing further. Then, over the course of about 19 minutes, and with no further remarks or communication from me of any kind, I receive the following three emails from the seller:

    SELLER:
    "R.Scott Meyer
    Nevada Western Firearms LLC
    www.nevadawesternfirearms.com
    OK, I'll certainly read it, thanks
    Pretty strange that Colt would sell a gun with both cylinders if they weren't safe and wouldn't shoot with both calibers properly This gun was originally sold with both cylinders...most people have simply misplaced one or the other cylinders which is why it is rare to find them with both cylinders.
    I have had dozens of these guns and fired several with both cylinders without the first problem."

    SELLER:
    "R.Scott Meyer
    Nevada Western Firearms LLC
    www.nevadawesternfirearms.com
    who gave you permission to post my reply to you on another forum and to use my name and phone #?
    Highly unethical and presumptuous of you!
    You sir, are nothing but disrespectful and meddling.
    If you wanted to reprint our presumably private e mails, you should have asked permission.You have violated my 1st amendment rights as far as I am concerned and you are still wrong!"

    SELLER:
    "
    R.Scott Meyer
    Nevada Western Firearms LLC
    www.nevadawesternfirearms.com

    I will however end my auction till such time as I research this myself in conjunction with my contacts at Colt and Colt archives
    I appreciate the heads up,and will not sell anything if indeed it is unsafe, but I will not accept your word alone or a forum I know nothing about; but your method of including my personal e mails to you on a public forum is very distasteful and I find you to be very rude and invasive.
    You are not a person to be trusted or respected in my opinion, which is the only one that matters.
    Enough said.Please be so kind as to just disappear and do not contact me again...your methods are highly repulsive to me.Any future messages form you will be blocked and ignored.
    thank you"

  10. #10
    Senior Member longranger is on a distinguished road

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    Can you say "defensive" Thanks Charlene for the heads up and education from all. I have heard this problem before this thread now I know a little more. I had been looking to buy a Colt 22 LR and bought a Official Police.Now I can move on to the 32-20 Peacemaker.


 
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