Handgun and round that could penetrate body armor?

[Doug.38PR]

Could a light weight 110 gr .357 magnum full-metal jacket in a pointed cone shape (like 9mm fmj) charged with hot handloadings or Buffalo Bore shot out of a 6 inch barrel penetrate body armor? (type II or even type III)

If a 110 30 Carbine out of a M-1 carbine can do it or a 55 gr .223 remington out of a AR-15 can do it...well if you get up enough velocity out of a FMJ pointed round....why not something in the .357 magnum?

[Lightning_man]

Could a light weight 110 gr .357 magnum full-metal jacket in a pointed cone shape (like 9mm fmj) charged with hot handloadings or Buffalo Bore shot out of a 6 inch barrel penetrate body armor? (type II or even type III)

If a 110 30 Carbine out of a M-1 carbine can do it or a 55 gr .223 remington out of a AR-15 can do it...well if you get up enough velocity out of a FMJ pointed round....why not something in the .357 magnum?

Small high velocity pointy bullets have a better chance of penatration of a Kavlar vest (without trama plate) than bigger slower bullets. I have doubts that you could achieve it with a .357 using lead/copper cased bullets. Winchester at one time produced some ammo for the .357 & others and labled them "metal peircing". I have a few rounds of these and they are around 148 grains in weight & are pointed but don't know if they could go through a vest. The FN FiveseveN Herstal pistol has ammo available to LE and the military (SS190) which will penatrate body armor. SS190 5.7x28mm is a small, high velocity, pointy bullet with a metal core. LM

[Doug.38PR]

Small high velocity pointy bullets have a better chance of penatration of a Kavlar vest (without trama plate) than bigger slower bullets. I have doubts that you could achieve it with a .357 using lead/copper cased bullets. Winchester at one time produced some ammo for the .357 & others and labled them "metal peircing". I have a few rounds of these and they are around 148 grains in weight & are pointed but don't know if they could go through a vest. The FN FiveseveN Herstal pistol has ammo available to LE and the military (SS190) which will penatrate body armor. SS190 5.7x28mm is a small, high velocity, pointy bullet with a metal core. LM

Right, "armor piercing" ammo (ammo that is made of all steel or a steel core) is illegal to own. But what about this metal peircing load? Is that illegal? (I've heard it's not)

[peacemaker]

Right, "armor piercing" ammo (ammo that is made of all steel or a steel core) is illegal to own.

I believe that only applies to handgun ammunition.

[Kid Sopris]

Congress passed legislation back in 1986, H.R. 3132 which did away with commercially loaded ammunition, designed to penetrate body armor; being distributed to civilians for the use in handguns. IT did not prevent the private ownership of those rounds already in existence that may be in the hands of Cartridge Collectors etc. ( I have seen some full boxes in mint condition sell for way over $125.00 at collector shows.) NOTE: There are Local ordinances which prohibit possession in some jurisdictions.

There is a provision that exempts law enforcement from obtaining, possessing or using same in the performance of their duty; however Somebody didn't tell LAPD in the North Hollywood Bank robberies about that.

Since Law Enforcement has gone to a variety of other type of tools need to carry out their job, steel core, jacket rounds similar to what Winchester made for the use in the 357 Magnum revolvers is pretty much obsolete.

In 1972-73 Los Angeles County Sheriff's Dept. did a performance study on the type of rounds that would penetrate body armor in preparation to the department issuing B.P. Vests to patrol personnel.

The 148 gr. as described in the aforementioned post was primarily designed to penetrate engine blocks, etc, because a majority of Law Enforcements agencies were still issuing 158 grain round nose lead to their personnel for duty use.

It wasn't till Remington introduced the 125 gr. Core-Lokt Semi Jacketed Hollow Points that Law enforcement had a better bullet. Remember we were just coming out of the racially motivated riots across America from the 1960's and Law Enforcement needed something else for better penetration without over penetrating. Of course Super-Vel, et al came on board at that time as well. (I was privy to those tests).

By the time Anti-war demonstrators were protesting and rioting over Viet-Nam, LEO's were back to using night sticks and shotguns.

It is worthy to note that a private person is also prohibited from manufacturing Handgun ammunition with the designed purpose of penetrating body armor; So if anyone has thoughts to develop some exotic hybrid, I would caution them against such foolishness.

[AEA]

Did I say something about velocity on the other Site? Twice?

[skeeeter]

Many years ago I used the Yellow box Winchester "Metal Piecing" pointed 357mag ammo on an auto body that was at a local dump. The rounds only showed slightly better penetration than standard 125 gr ammo. I remember it failed to penetrate the metal that formed the post between the front door and rear door of a 4 door car. I doubt it would penetrate an engine block and certainly would not penetrate lever II or IIIA body armor. If I recall it was 158 gr but I might be wrong about that. It basically was made to penetrate passenger doors.

[Lightning_man]

Many years ago I used the Yellow box Winchester "Metal Piecing" pointed 357mag ammo on an auto body that was at a local dump. The rounds only showed slightly better penetration than standard 125 gr ammo. I remember it failed to penetrate the metal that formed the post between the front door and rear door of a 4 door car. I doubt it would penetrate an engine block and certainly would not penetrate lever II or IIIA body armor. If I recall it was 158 gr but I might be wrong about that. It basically was made to penetrate passenger doors.

Skeeeter, they could be 158 gr bullets as I was just trying to recall what I remember weighing it, when I pulled a .38 special MP round apart. It was the only one I had in that caliber, as the rest were .357 MP rounds. For the heck of it I took a magnet to the .357's and it does not stick, so they don't have a steel core. My guess, besides the pointyness of these rounds, is that the copper jacket my be a bit thicker than the average bullet. The .38 I pulled did not have the jacket completly covering the lead core, in fact it barely went below the point where the bullet was crimped. LM

[cocojo]

Sorry guy but I don't agree in discussing penetration of body armor. What's the purpose for the discussion? The moderator should lock this thread.

[JudgeColt]

Sorry guy but I don't agree in discussing penetration of body armor. What's the purpose for the discussion? The moderator should lock this thread.

That sounds a lot like blaming the gun for the crime committed by the shooter.