Trooper ignition or trigger return problem

[Tinkerer]

Hi Colt Guys, my recently acquired Mk 3 (111...), 1970 specimen is giving me some challenge. On my first outing I had some fail to fire. I read up on that and decided best course was to order a Wolff spring kit. My old coil spring had signs of modifications - the ends were nicely ground down to make it weaker. The new Wolff springs are quite different in strength from each other. (Thanks to DFarrisWheel for instructions to install! wood block with hole to hold spring worked g8). I first decided to try the stronger hammer spring, but no change of trigger spring yet for my 2nd trip to range and had no misfires but a new problem occurred, trigger staying / sticking... back after firing and needed encouragement to return forward for next shot, almost half the time or more. My next step was to decide to take the gun apart and try and learn what's going on. Tapping lightly worked well for loosening the side plate. It's cool stuff inside there and neat to watch it work while holding parts in place. I did find some fairly thick crud buildup on the trigger piece where it rolls across the cylinder lock part and thought "cool this ought to fix her up," a toothpick and solvent took it off. I decided now the lighter hammer spring and trigger spring should go in. That trigger spring was a challenge, especially getting it on that little roller pin groove where it can ride smoothly, but I got it all back together. Then 3rd trip to the range and right away worse misfires than first time out, but no problem with trigger sticking back. I really like the gun and the sleuthing is ok with me. So next, figured just need the stronger hammer spring. Just swapped that in and did not touch new trigger spring. Only dry fired so far with snap caps and works ok, but that was true my first outting when real ammo made something worse. NOW, while looking it over and playing with it, I discovered that a very slight forward thumb pressure on the hammer with trigger held back after action-ing and the trigger won't return - I can tell the transfer bar is getting pinched. It's getting pinched by the firing pin being in contact with the rounds or snap caps primer and the firing pin then pushing back through to the transfer bar, to the hammer and I can see the hammer is not fully resting on the frame on the highest hammer stop. I think a real round, vs snap cap, makes this problem worse when the firing pressure pushes the case primer back into the firing pin harder. I have been shooting light 38 spl reloads. Btw, the firing pin does look perfect and slides very smoothly by itself. Maybe going back to the stock trigger spring will help, haven't tried that yet. My question now is, do the springs have to be really carefully balanced to avoid this? I had guessed the new 10.5 lb spring and matched trigger spring would be perfect, tried and true, if all else is well. Do you Gents have any ideas what may still be out of kilter and what I should try next? Also, I've made all internals and transfer bar as slick as I can with good solvent then light oil. Thanks much for interest and suggestions.

[A1A]

Welcome to the forum. IMO the 11.5 lb spring is usually too light. The 13 lb is usually quite reliable and seems to be preferred. The other question would be about your reloads. Primer seating has an effect on reliable ignition and it sounds like you might have some protrusion. Others will likely comment further on this, but try some factory loads with the 13 lb spring. JMO

[Tinkerer]

Thanks A1A , I appreciate knowing your advice to stick with the 13 lb spring. My reloads appear to have the primer seated quite flush in the cases, both new and spent. You may be onto something though - like, is my firing pin a hair too long somehow? If I have no snap cap in the cylinder the hammer seats all the way onto the frame on its top stop and the transfer bar has room to drop out of the gap between hammer and frame while it's pushing in the firing pin. One would think that after the firing pin strikes a cartridge it would have a little fore and aft room left over to not pinch up the transfer bar into the hammer. I can try some factory rounds as you suggest. Maybe my light loads aren't recoiling the gun hard enough to jolt the firing pin and help convince the transfer bar to drop.

[Eldon Hickey]

My most valuable suggestion would be to get the Jerry Kuhnhausen (sp?) book...Colts vol.2....available from midway I believe. It walks you through things like changing springs and has a trouble-shooting table that's helpful. I'm totally inept as a gunsmith but I managed to change out the hammer and trigger springs on my 3 Trooper Mk III's with no disasters. BTW, I found the light springs in the Wolf spring pack too light...the medium (13lb) work perfectly and made a great improvement in trigger pull with no light strikes. Light recoiling loads should have no bearing on the function of the revolver. Giving the innards a good cleaning and de-gunking is a very good idea. Sounds like you just need a stronger trigger return spring...and maybe a good cleaning. Good luck.

[gunshooter]

I noticed 2 problems with my recently acquired Trooper MK III pistols. The first had a broken trigger at the pivot area and it did alot of what you are describing. The second problem is the hand-trasfer bar spring falls out of the transfer bar or is not in the same plane as the transfer bar (bent off to the side). I've reinstalled and aligned the spring and Troopy II works great now. The lighter springs won't reliable fire CCI Primers in my reloads either. I've switched the lighter springs between both guns and the lighter springs wont reliable fire the reloads. I've also noticed the factory heavy hammer spring will fire the CCI reloads in Troopy that has very excessive cylinder end play as well. I have a second smooth target trigger, new hammer I won't be needing so PM if you need them. I found a hand spring and have it on hand as a spare as well.

I had started a thread: Making my new MKIII Trooper reliable and ready for the range

I received a whole bunch of great help and as a result now have 2 functioning Trooper MK III pistols.

Maybe going through the replies will get you started on the road to a great functioning Trooper MK III as it did for me!

[Tinkerer]

Eldon, IMO you must be a pretty fair smith gettin those trigger springs in ok. Good to hear you don't suspect light loads as an impact, thanks much.

Gunshooter, very interesting on the CCI's being harder to set off. I guess that might make them safer to reload. I might swap back the stock trigger spring before shooting it again and then I can go look at the that hand spring for alignment with the transfer bar and all else you described. I don't think I need any parts yet but would let you know - thanks a bunch
just returned after went over to read your thread and found it very interesting and encouraging - congrats on your success!

[Tinkerer]

My trooper is perfect now - no FTF and no trigger sticking aft. It took me a while to go shooting again but gun worked flawlessly with the medium 13 lb hammer spring and the lighter wolff trigger spring. I was expecting to have to go back to the stock trigger spring to ensure trigger return, but nope. What really solved the problem was the dissassembly and real thourough cleaning that got the crud out. I used PB Blaster as a solvent to great effect.