Colt Forum banner

1940 Colt SM Ace

8K views 71 replies 27 participants last post by  wolfcoln 
#1 · (Edited)
Not a lot to say about this thing, I'll let the photo's do the talking




 
See less See more
2
#14 · (Edited)
Well with the prodding of a fellow forum member I took this thing down and sure enough it is as fake as a politician soliciting votes. The guy started with a Argentina Frame on this one to make his wonderful fraudulent copy. The bluing was good though people, I have to tell you. Mark this one down and record the serial number in case it pops back up further down the road, and mark another one up to David Buehn .



 
#33 ·
Well with the prodding of a fellow forum member I took this thing down and sure enough it is as fake as a politician soliciting votes. The guy started with a Argentina Frame on this one to make his wonderful fraudulent copy. The bluing was good though people, I have to tell you. Mark this one down and record the serial number in case it pops back up further down the road, and mark another one up to David Buehn . I have only myself to blame on this one, should have taken it down but trusted the person I received it from



Rob, I read this post with a heavy heart. I have seen first hand the personal destruction this seller has caused. A good friend of mine owns a gun shop here in Tucson. About a year ago an older gentleman brought in his collection to be evaluated for possible sale to pay some family medical bills. Most, if not all were purchased from Huntington Beach. The shop owner had the very difficult task of informing him that his trust was misplaced, and his collection was not worth anywhere near his initial investment. This has never left me, I know there are more out there in collections.----- Sad story indeed.
 
#16 · (Edited)
Thank you for all your help Kevin. I am an arse and brash at times but I am not a crook and would not want to be a party to someone losing their money if I know the truth.I got taken, life will go on BUT no matter how much I trust someone I will always take the gun down before parting with my money in the future.

Be careful guys, this was a very good fake...
Rob,
You're a brave man to 'fess up and show the evidence here. Most wouldn't. They would just quietly resell the pistol. Folks, quite a few of the pristine guns posted lately have similar stories. You MUST be able to conduct due diligence or your run this kind of risk.
Regards,
Kevin Williams
 
#17 ·
Wow, that is scary how good it looks in the pics and your no amateur so I assume it's as good if not better in person. Kudos to you for putting it right out there as soon as you noticed. I guess if there is a silver lining see how it shoots. Sorry to hear about the whole situation but your a stand up guy Rob.
 
#18 ·
Rob, if its makes you feel better only half of it is fake. This stinks! (That's not the word I wanted to use)
The only thing I can say is if it were me, my blood pressure would up and I'd have one hell of a hangover tomorrow.
 
#24 ·
It's more than half wrong lol. Taking it all the way down showed it for what it is. While I am ashamed of myself I could only laugh at my own stupidity and honestly am not overly concerned to the point of it upping my BP. This was bound to happen to me sooner or later, doing things in a rush and being complacent has no place in this hobby from buying to shooting
 
#19 · (Edited)
chaosrob,

Thank you for this thread.

This is one of several SMA's examined on Model 27 receivers. The others have been the 1945 parko-lubrite finish. One of them had the VP, assembler's, and inspection marks added on the exterior like yours. And, the mechanic attempted to remove them from around the top left bushing. The mechanics are getting better all the time. This one has a few mulligans to question it. If you are up to it,---is the slide numbered to the receiver? If so, is the font correct? A picture might help us identify this mechanic's work.?

Even with a Colt letter you cannot be sure (it is easier to fake the letter than the hardware). Calling Colt and verifying the letter before purchase will not work if it is a real serial number.

Two of the other owners, returned them (to CA) for refunds,---but, then someone else gets stuck with them!!

Collectors,---SMA, National Match, and Super Match pistols are faked a lot! Be very careful!

Best Regards,
 
#23 ·
Stan,
Indeed, it is really not that concealed after you know what it is, I was lazy, aloof and have only myself to blame on this thing. The slide serrations, the slide stop, the magazine not matching condition, etc. I talked to Paul prior but as you say he can only tell me what the real serial refers to.

The slide is numbered to the receiver.

I am ashamed of myself, I know better and with this type of gun should have taken precautions, but I did not.

 
#20 ·
I'm naïve I guess, but I had no idea that fakery had reached to this level. For a pistol like a Singer
that sells in the $100K range, I reasoned it was "profitable" for the crooks to do so. However, now it
seems to be rampant everywhere on desirable models. I wonder how they can do such beautiful looking
work? Does the Surfer Guy have them done (cheaply) in Mexico perhaps?

Seeing this I'm almost afraid to buy anything at auction unless I REALLY know the seller.

BTW, THANK YOU Chaosrob for sharing this rather painful experience with your fellow Colt buddies.
 
#30 ·
I can guarantee you that if our LGS were to acquire that gun it would be listed
around $5000+ and they would sell it without ever knowing that the frame had
been faked. Whoever did that work sure made it look original to the average Blue Book
reader. What happened to you could easily happen to many of us.
I wish I could have JohnnyP, Stan3 or Scott G. check out all 1911 and 1911A1 variants
before I make a purchase.
 
#31 ·
I agree Terry the difference is I know better, I have the books, I have the experience and yet I bit anyway which is why it was so sour. I can laugh about it now and it doesn't trouble me enough to let it get my BP up it was just another humbling experience for me to remind me not to get complacent or trust what someone says just because I know them. I do not believe the seller knew this as he never takes anything apart but rest assured I will do my due diligence with future purchases
 
#38 · (Edited)
Yes, this top end most likely started out back then. There were apparently many extra top ends surplussed after the war. Some entrepreneur put them in plain cardboard boxes and sold them as conversion units (in the late 40's and early 50's.?). LEP has them listed as a version of CU's in his data sheet.

It is tempting to point out what is wrong externally with the OP's SMA,---but, that would just help out the mechanics! (Edit, I think they just learned two new items. :()

Faked SMA's have been around for at least 18 years, NM and SM before then. The last paragraph from Lowell's 2008 summer Rampant Colt article: "As I am writing this there are three Colt Super Matches for sale on the internet websites that are fake. Buyers beware!!"

Best Regards,
 
#40 ·
Yes, this top end most likely started out back then. There were apparently many extra top ends surplussed after the war. Some entrepreneur them in plain cardboard boxes and sold them as conversion units (in the late 40's and early 50's.?). LEP has them listed as a version of CU's in his data sheet.
Best Regards,
I've seen several Service Model ACE top ends listed on eBay, and that's just within the last year or so. So there may be a few SMA uppers still floating around. I thought about snagging one and putting together a clone or should I say a parts SMA.

Well I actually did do that with an early post-War Conversion Unit and a Caspian frame. It never would have dawned on me to build something like the one being discussed here. Most have heard about the fake Singer M1911A1's and others, as well as some Walker Colt's, but I guess there is not limit to what some are willing to counterfeit.
 
#41 ·
I suspect some fakes are done with evil intent, but some are probably done by someone who wants a gun
that is 'just like' the original in looks. In those cases the gun might end up in a collection and get sold
as an original when the original owner dies.
A big success of fakes (so to speak) was when the California Combat Pythons were built with 3" barrels made from
Colt Pythons with 8" barrels. They made so many of the 'fakes' they became a much sought after variant. Who
knows what collectors will be drawn to?
 
#42 ·
Here is what I don't understand. That is one amazing copy, granted I am only looking at pics but Rob is no amateur and at least in the pic that finish hits that very hard to copy lighter slate blue of the prewar colts, more so than pics of the turnbulls I have seen. Why would someone with enough talent and tools and ability to to such amazing work go through all the trouble for what in the end probably isn't all that big a payday when you add up getting the parts together, the time and materials needed to do this. I don't understand the logic behind some guys that have the ability to have a thriving ligit enterprise and instead do stuff that's illegal or less than ligit in business. I would think whoever did this could have a multi year wait for their work if they opened a legitimate restoration shop. I normally don't want things refinished but I have a couple that are candidates that I would send to whoever did this one because it's so convincing and these are otherwise colts that are beyond keeping the little finish that's left as opposed to send them out for a resto and maybe engraving or something. I don't get it, this faker was/is talented and should reconsider their buisness practices to the ligit side and make some real money, probably a lot more overall the honest way. Sad really that we are missing a possible asset to restorations community because they chose a less than honest way to use their talent.
 
#43 · (Edited)
It boils down to this, how much will a person pay to get a premium, good as in the old days restoration? I don't know how much Turnbull charges today, but years ago he quoted me $700 for my Bisley. At the time a 98% Bisley would cost about $2100. So the profit of refinishing is three times the profit of selling one in excellent condition. If someone can build a fake 1911 or SAA, or Python, and get them into the market surreptitiously, they would make many more times what they'd make with an honest refinish business. The amount of work is the same, the difference is making $900 for a refinish job, or $9,000 if you pretend it's real. Counterfeiting can be very profitable. As a few box and target fakers have learned.
 
#44 · (Edited)
Fly;
I appreciate it but in this case I acted exactly as an amateur. Having never owned a SM Ace from this era I relied only on the appearance of the finish, sharpness of the stamps, etc. Had I bothered to even crack a book or even just disassemble the pistol I would have known immediately. The finish is amazing in person and spot on with my known good example 45's from that era but had I even put the slightest amount of effort into actually researching it would have been readily apparant and could have saved myself some heartburn. Ido however agree with you whole heartily though, whoever the finisher was, wow
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top