Mexican Punitive Action? A little help, please.
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Thread: Mexican Punitive Action? A little help, please.

  1. #21
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    All manner of National Guard outfits crossed Mexico's border to chase Villa - their histories are full of photos and rosters of participants, and there was no 'deception' involved - it was all exceptionally well-publicized at the time.

    The states involved even had medals made for their returning soldiers to go with the 'Mexican Border Service Medal' issued by the Federal government.

    As to the Reserves - they wouldn't exist until much later in the way they're known today.

    However, the 'Organized Reserve Corps' did exist, and acted as a manpower pool for specialized Officers in the Medical Service, and later, nascent Air Service, where those men would wear 'U.S.R.' on their collars.

    There's always the chance that the weapon and holster got themselves married up later in time, too.

  2. #22
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    I believe I read the Organized Reserve Corps did not exist until 1920, when the enlisted reserve and officer reserve personnel were merged. Up until that time, they existed separately. So I think Dr. Hecker, technically, was in the Officers' Reserve Corps when he went into the military.
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  3. #23
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    dogface6 is correct, in fact, on June 18, 1916, president Wilson called into federal service virtually the entire army National Guard, for possible all out war with Mexico. if interested, the book about that is called, "The Great Call-Up" by Charles Harris, and Louis Sadler. So yes, Lt. Hecker could have crossed the border.
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  5. #24
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    I do not disagree with any person. My gut says the pistol, the holster and the late Doctor were in Chihuahua as a unit. There is the Doctor's journey from home to Fort Sam to Fort Bliss at the proper time. There is the evidentiary admissible hearsay rule exemption statement concerning the return of the pistol from Chihuahua. It is not likely any person could put a holster together with a pistol after the fact and the name on the holster matches the name of a person assigned to the AO by the Government.
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  6. #25
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    Of course there is...

    The number of 'named' holsters extant would boggle the mind, and post WWII, all of the gun magazines offered your choice of M1911s or M1911A1s for sale by every one of the large dealers advertising in them.

    Putting together complete rigs back then was beyond simple - hell, it's still done, today, and way more often than you think.

    Back in the early '60's, I remember trying vainly to get my Dad to let me buy a WWI-dated 1903 Springfield (or Rock Island Arsenal) set-up complete with M1907 sling, web belt, First Aid Pouch and packet, M1905 Bayonet and scabbard and the cleaning accessories - all from an outfit in Chicago - for $19.95, and even I had saved up the money - but I was 12, and he wouldn't budge...

    This could easily be a case of 'Buy the Gun - Not the Story', since nothing ties 'that' M1911 to that specific Officer beyond the named holster.
    Last edited by dogface6; 01-11-2017 at 06:11 AM.
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  7. #26
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    If you know Hecker's date and place of death - try contacting the local County Historical Society - for that matter - try doing the same at his point of entry into the Service.

    Doctors are considered more of a 'big deal' than common soldiers and Officers, and the social pages cover their exploits more thoroughly, so the respective County and State Historical Societies will likely have biographies and obituaries on him - far more so than anything the Army will, and with far less red tape.

    That can give you the unit he was assigned to, and being a Doc - that means pretty much anywhere useful.

    Good Luck!
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  8. #27
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    History of the Mexican revolution on this post is awesome. My Great Grandmother ( paternally) had two brothers that were killed in the revolution on Carranza's side. They were both officers and from Cuidad Mier, Tamp. This post you made tells so much and I am wondering how you gleamed this much information and where you secured it. I'm sure there has been much written on this part of the Revolution but I really like what you posted.
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  9. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by cedarhill View Post
    History of the Mexican revolution on this post is awesome. My Great Grandmother ( paternally) had two brothers that were killed in the revolution on Carranza's side. They were both officers and from Cuidad Mier, Tamp. This post you made tells so much and I am wondering how you gleamed this much information and where you secured it. I'm sure there has been much written on this part of the Revolution but I really like what you posted.
    Not sure if you are asking me, or everyone? I actually came with what I was given and haven't provided that much additional information. Instead, I came asking for help. The member who contacted me directly said he uses newspapers.com, ancestry.com and other such sources to come up with what he provided. Even knowing where to look, one must be pretty savvy to know how to navigate the systems. These guys seem to be able to find most anything!
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  10. #29
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    The Mexican Border served as a sort of proving ground for a number of things - the Maxim machinegun was widely used by the Mexicans, for example, as was the associated body armor - and aerial reconnaissance was performed by Curtiss 'Jennys' for another - using ground-to-air wireless with varying degrees of success.

    Rubber-tired transport was widely used, along with motorcycle couriors and wireless messaging was being perfected.

    All manner of modernity was creeping into the Tactics manuals.

    One of the most interesting things was the use of rail - with the Brigada del Norte (Villa) using trains to move rapidly - which would seem like common sense - but what those trains were 'doing' was most interesting, and little thought of.

    What does an occupying force need for legitimacy and to keep the occupied fairly happy, you ask?

    That their money isn't de-valued... (You probably have other ideas - but I really don't care, since this is illustrative of the foresight these men had.)

    So - they installed die-stamping presses in railcars with which to over-stamp the currency found in the overtaken regions, or to create their own from the many silver mines in the region, while needed currency-grade paper was often supplied via American banknote companies - and failing that - wallpaper companies.

    The point being - no one lost money when Villa's Dorados came to town...

    These innovations and more would soon be put to the test in France, and many of the leadership and soldiering skills learned in Mexico would stand the Doughboys of Pershing's AEF in good stead.
    Last edited by dogface6; 01-11-2017 at 02:33 PM.
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  11. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by EXFI View Post
    I do not disagree with any person. My gut says the pistol, the holster and the late Doctor were in Chihuahua as a unit. There is the Doctor's journey from home to Fort Sam to Fort Bliss at the proper time. There is the evidentiary admissible hearsay rule exemption statement concerning the return of the pistol from Chihuahua. It is not likely any person could put a holster together with a pistol after the fact and the name on the holster matches the name of a person assigned to the AO by the Government.
    The nice thing about how this rig came to me is that it came from a trusted old friend who only sold it to me because he likes me. In fact, he wouldn't even take what I told him I thought it was worth. He sold it to me for about what I'd consider 35-40% of fair market value. He wasn't too interested in how much it brought, but more in where it went.

    I'm quite confident my friend's account about he acquired the rig is true. When he told me about Bud Wyman's account of how he acquired the rig, that story seemed genuine, too. I'd think if Bud was one to tell big, made-up tales, he probably would have told one about his own military service...or at least told a tale about someone's battlefield experience. There's nothing too sexy about buying a gun from a fishing guide in Mexico. So, personally, I've got a pretty good feeling about the story being legitimate.

    When I purchased the rig, the name on the holster wasn't even discussed. I'm not even sure if my friend knew it was there. He never mentioned it. I only discovered it while photographing the rig for my site. I didn't even see it while shooting photos. I only saw it reviewing images on my laptop. Then I went back and photographed the marking.

    And now that I do have a name and some history to go on, I think it will be both fun and rewarding to research Dr. Hecker's military record. Everything may eventually fall into place. If not, I've still got a nice, original SA M1911 rig that was a bargain to buy.
    Last edited by Scott Gahimer; 01-11-2017 at 02:58 PM.
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