New to me National Match
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 16
Like Tree38Likes

Thread: New to me National Match

  1. #1
    Junior Member

    Member #
    45506
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Missouri Ozarks
    Posts
    6
    Liked
    10 times

    New to me National Match

    I went looking for a "shooter" 1911 and came across this one, as near as I can tell it is a '67 NM. The old gentleman I got it from had it extensively modified and used it for a daily carry gun. The stuff I can pick out as added or modified are the frame tangs/ BT grip safety and lowered and flared ejection port. The slide has been re-blued and I also think the mainspring housing and grips are not original but I'm not really sure about those. I also wonder about the 2 tone finish as I have never seen a NM with a nickel frame. I got it for a song so the alterations actually put it in my price range. It cycles my practice load flawlessly and as soon as the new springs arrive I'll give it a good workout. Sorry for the poor quality photos, not my strong suit.
    IMG_0489_zpszan7gup7.jpgIMG_0493_zpsqluv7vpp.jpg

  2. #2
    Senior Member

    Member #
    21528
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    gettysburg, pa
    Posts
    1,789
    Liked
    1141 times
    From what I can see it looks like the whole gun has been refinished. Not sure if that hammer is original.
    ei8ht and BobT like this.

  3. #3
    Senior Member

    Member #
    31141
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Delray Beach, Fl.
    Posts
    1,092
    Liked
    2045 times
    Congratulations! Looks like a nice shooter. With Colt anything is possible but I would guess the slide and the frame are not a match.
    BobT, ei8ht, Colt-SL and 1 others like this.
    Bill
    NRA Life Member, and Long Time Colt Enthusiast!

  4. Remove Advertisements
    ColtForum.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Senior Member

    Member #
    2398
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    CO
    Posts
    1,419
    Liked
    1127 times
    It would have looked like my series 70 originally except for the rollmarks
    BobT, ponyup, speedfrk73z and 1 others like this.

  6. #5
    Senior Member

    Member #
    25398
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    896
    Liked
    513 times
    Hello BobT:

    Colt did not offer a stock nickle NM pistol until the end of the Series 70 run. The offering at that time was in electroless nickle, aka Coltguard. They were made up with blue pistols taking a detour to CCS.

    The two tone treatment became fashionable in the eighties. They were two toned in the after market until the Combat Elite was introduced. Your pistol would have left shipping blue. Nothing wrong with honest wear and a facelift on a pistol of that age that was used as a shooter and a carry gun. I have a much younger pistol used for carry wearing blue coat number three.
    ponyup, BobT, speedfrk73z and 1 others like this.

  7. #6
    Supporting Member
    Supporting Member

    Member #
    14228
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    small town Virginia
    Posts
    1,495
    Liked
    2061 times
    I like your shooter, seems like you found just what you were looking for.

    You noted some obvious differences from a stock 67', and for the most part I can see your observations too. One thing you mentioned as changed is actually standard on a National Match slide and that is the ejection port.
    The profile of the one I see is exactly as they came on the N M. lowered and flared... And, judging by the forward slanting slide serrations, it is a N. M. slide, although I can't see the roll marks.
    The roll mark designating it a "National Match" by the way, would on the left side; not the right as in later years. Further, the roll mark would only state NATION MATCH; not "Gold Cup". Again, as in later years.
    The box, owners manual, and perhaps the original shot target, would call it N. M. and GOLD CUP . (Not sure about the gun designation on the shot target.)

    I can't see the pictures well enough, (better than I can make em though ) to tell about the frame tangs you mention, nor the hammer another poster mentioned, but you are correct about the MSH. It should be a flat profile.

    There was a question posted about mismatched frame and slide ?? I'll leave that to others, but for the frame to be a 67' National Match the serial number should be five digits, and end in N M.
    And to be in the 67' time frame the serial should be: after 19500NM, and before 25500NM, or close. If it is NOT a NM. serial, someone went to extra trouble and expense to get that wide N.M. trigger in place, and serrate the front grip frame. Very few smiths offer that first service anymore.

    Three other mentions, and I'll leave you to enjoy your Colt.
    The grips are the somewhat later Colt's feature; smooth, sand-blasted finish,that didn't come about until in the 70 series I'm sure. 1967 type should be full checkered, gold medallions, and no diamond pattern around the grip screws.
    One of the other little features of these era N. M. pistols is the shape of the recoil plug, and a matching concave in the barrel bushing. The plug end looks like a 230gr. pistol ball, and the bushing matches it.

    Finally, one of the more interesting aspects of Colt's engineering on that 67', is the little device that was invented by them to put unsuspecting gun wranglers in an extended stay at the local "nervous hospital"..... They called it: "THE SEAR DEPRESSOR LEVER AND SPRING system" !...You sir, unless the former owner decided to have it changed out, have now been blessed with the little "hell's curse".

    Before you get one of these, you will firmly convince yourself, "nope, I just won't ever disassemble and take it out !"
    Believe me, it is one of temptation's loudest siren-calls of allure. You will HAVE to take your test just so you know it can be done.....It does delay your shooting for a week or two, till you round up some of the little springs and levers, but yep. "Snatch it on outa there, we'll help you get it back "!
    Last edited by ponyup; 03-20-2017 at 06:00 PM.
    ei8ht, Colt-SL, BobT and 2 others like this.

  8. #7
    Junior Member

    Member #
    45506
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Missouri Ozarks
    Posts
    6
    Liked
    10 times
    Quote Originally Posted by ponyup View Post
    I like your shooter, seems like you found just what you were looking for.

    You noted some obvious differences from a stock 67', and for the most part I can see your observations too. One thing you mentioned as changed is actually standard on a National Match slide and that is the ejection port.
    The profile of the one I see is exactly as they came on the N M. lowered and flared... And, judging by the forward slanting slide serrations, it is a N. M. slide, although I can't see the roll marks.
    The roll mark designating it a "National Match" by the way, would on the left side; not the right as in later years. Further, the roll mark would only state NATION MATCH; not "Gold Cup". Again, as in later years.
    The box, owners manual, and perhaps the original shot target, would call it N. M. and GOLD CUP . (Not sure about the gun designation on the shot target.)

    I can't see the pictures well enough, (better than I can make em though ) to tell about the frame tangs you mention, nor the hammer another poster mentioned, but you are correct about the MSH. It should be a flat profile.

    There was a question posted about mismatched frame and slide ?? I'll leave that to others, but for the frame to be a 67' National Match the serial number should be five digits, and end in N M.
    And to be in the 67' time frame the serial should be: after 19500NM, and before 25500NM, or close. If it is NOT a NM. serial, someone went to extra trouble and expense to get that wide N.M. trigger in place, and serrate the front grip frame. Very few smiths offer that first service anymore.

    Three other mentions, and I'll leave you to enjoy your Colt.
    The grips are the somewhat later Colt's feature; smooth, sand-blasted finish,that didn't come about until in the 70 series I'm sure. 1967 type should be full checkered, gold medallions, and no diamond pattern around the grip screws.
    One of the other little features of these era N. M. pistols is the shape of the recoil plug, and a matching concave in the barrel bushing. The plug end looks like a 230gr. pistol ball, and the bushing matches it.

    Finally, one of the more interesting aspects of Colt's engineering on that 67', is the little device that was invented by them to put unsuspecting gun wranglers in an extended stay at the local "nervous hospital"..... They called it: "THE SEAR DEPRESSOR LEVER AND SPRING system" !...You sir, unless the former owner decided to have it changed out, have now been blessed with the little "hell's curse".

    Before you get one of these, you will firmly convince yourself, "nope, I just won't ever disassemble and take it out !"
    Believe me, it is one of temptation's loudest siren-calls of allure. You will HAVE to take your test just so you know it can be done.....It does delay your shooting for a week or two, till you round up some of the little springs and levers, but yep. "Snatch it on outa there, we'll help you get it back "!

    Thank you all for the replies!

    A couple of answers for you ponyup,

    It is in fact marked National Match on the left side, no "Gold Cup" anywhere.

    The serial # is 197XX-NM

    The bushing and plug are coned.

    I am not familiar with the "THE SEAR DEPRESSOR LEVER AND SPRING system" you mention and I have not yet completely disassembled the pistol but now you have me curious
    I'll try to get a couple of better pictures up in the next couple of days. I also forgot to mention that the slide is a "light weight" and the rear sight is an Elliason.

    Thanks again!
    Bob
    EXFI, ponyup and ei8ht like this.

  9. #8
    Supporting Member
    Supporting Member

    Member #
    14228
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    small town Virginia
    Posts
    1,495
    Liked
    2061 times
    Bob T, you got a "treat" in store when you take that sear depressor out. No wait, what I meant to say, when you put it back together and get it in the gun !

    All my admonishments assume the previous owner left it as stock. And, while my comments are meant for fun, care should be taken on sear / dis-connector take-down to contain the miniscule lever and spring. Really, there is no real need to take those parts out. But, like most of us with new -used guns, the first thing we want to do is completely take it apart. Not always a bad idea either, however in the case of the other owner doing a lot of shooting, all inside is probably okay.

    I am familiar with; but failed to mention, the National Match slides in the era of yours is "lightened", like you state. Not roll-marked as a "light-weight" , but a machined out portion of metal in two areas of the slide. Note you can see the open extractor channel when you remove the slide.
    They were meant for target shooting, hence lighter, 185 gr. loads.

    Without re-figuring your recoil spring weight; perhaps mainspring as well, you may cause slide stress, or worse, with 230 hardball. Other guys state they have shot hundreds of factory hardball with nary a problem. It's a nice gun, and I would not take that chance.

    With further thoughts on the matter, I expect under "good, strong natural light" you will notice a "plum" colored hue to two areas of your slide. One area near the slide-lock notch, and one to the front where the bushing seats in the slide. Those areas are not flaws, but extra Colt's heat-treating to the two areas found previously to be effected by "battering" of the lightened slides. Bluing did not take the same on the areas of different metal hardness.

    I noticed in your first post on this pistol you thought your slide had been re-blued, but I think it is original. At least from the pictures.
    ei8ht, EXFI and BobT like this.

  10. #9
    Senior Member

    Member #
    20175
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    6,455
    Liked
    6555 times
    The last three or four digits of the serial number should be under the rear sight. The pistols had the slide hand fitted to the receiver, but in this case the nickel plating destroyed that fit.

    Use a blind pin to keep the fly in place on the sear while assembling the pistol.
    ponyup likes this.

  11. #10
    Senior Member

    Member #
    25398
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    896
    Liked
    513 times
    Ponyup has raised some points of interest to me concerning the lightened slides of that time period. I have never been a BE guy but have been around a few. The history of the 1911 in formal competition is of interest to me.

    My understanding is BE has always been a three cartridge game: rimfire, centerfire and service hard ball. Pachmayr used to market a shooters box built like a heavy attache case. It had a pistol rack inside with space for three pistols anyway. They may have offered them in more than one size. They may still be available.

    My understanding is that at least in the service (hard ball) match, the pistol had to be equipped with a GI grip safety. That may have changed now. Like all gun games, the rules seem to be in a nearly constant state of flux. Now I do not know if the rule applied to the frame tangs as well. The GI grip safety part could be replaced on an altered frame tang frame.

    My understanding is that some shooters elected to use two slide assemblies and thus avoid the recoil spring change in the same slide when using a 1911 in centerfire and ball. Currently, and I think I recall that previously, there have been sight restrictions in the service match that do/did not apply to centerfire. Thus came the distinction of wad gun and ball gun. The beauty of using one frame is the keeping of the same trigger for the two sub-divisions of the BE discipline. Now you could use the same complete gun but many consider this a handicap due to the ball gun restrictions. There were other centerfire options but they do not contemplate a Colt semi-auto or the pistol of the OP.

    This brings us to the period of production of the OP pistol. Did Colt offer the NM pistol in lightweight slide for wad and standard weight for ball? Or in the alternative, was only the one lightweight slide configuration offered at that time. I also wonder if the OEM supplied spring weights for the LW slide NM pistols were different.
    Thanks for your indulgence in my quest for nostalgia information.

    BTW, as of the other day, Brownells had the Colt OEM light 13 pound recoil spring for .45 wad and 9/38 standard in stock. Colt OEM 1911 springs have been like some of their other parts since Colt changed their parts business model a few years ago. I did not check on the 16 pound recoil or the 19 and 23 pound main springs. Replacement springs are also available from Wolff but many prefer the Colt OEM. The green paint vs no green paint makes identification easy on both styles of springs.
    ponyup likes this.


 
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-08-2015, 03:17 PM
  2. Question: National Match & Super Match - DW King Gunsight
    By RexGoliath in forum Colt Semiauto Pistols
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-25-2014, 02:30 AM
  3. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-09-2014, 07:07 PM
  4. Colt Gold Cup National Match/Officers Match Slide NIB Help
    By roman3667 in forum Colt Semiauto Pistols
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 07-06-2012, 01:19 PM
  5. 60's National Match
    By lex in forum Colt Semiauto Pistols
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 07-24-2010, 09:39 AM
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
We are not associated with Colt's Manufacturing LLC. We are an enthusiast site comprised of Colt Fans.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3
Copyright © 2017 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.