1926 Transition, and 1911 from 1916: pictures added

[colt22dotcom]

I am being offered a transition model sn 7010xx. According to Clawson's book that number was in the 7 Feb 1924 shipment of 1000. Clawson also says that the 1911A1 designation was adopted in 1926. Am I correct to assume from those dates that sn 7010xx should be marked as a 1911, not a 1911A1? Or were they possibly marked later?

I am a long time collector of Colt Woodsmans, but I have very limited knowledge of the large frame autos. I will be seeing the pistol later today for the first time. Suggestions please as to what details I should look for. It is described as 98% original finish and all correct by the person who has owned it for several years.

He is also bringing a 1911 from 1916, described as 99%+. I have bought and sold from this person for years. He is a very picky condition buyer, and his descriptions of condition are always right on. I am not going to get into serious collecting of the large frame autos, but I sure would not mind having a couple superb examples like these two. Price is $8000 for the two.

I need advice from the 1911/1911A1 experts. I think the price is good for what they are, but I need to know what to check for.

Pictures of transition previously added. Here are pics of 1916 1911









Bob Rayburn

[Waltherman]

You need to ask the boys over at
"1911Forums" in the USGI section.
That's where the Military 1911 experts
hang out. Even as decribed, $8K is strong
in my neck of the woods for those 2.

[kwill]

Bob,

I'll be glad to help you. The 1924 pistols are marked on the slide like the M1911 guns but they have the A1 features and are included in the official nomenclature as M1911A1's. This is why collectors have dubbed them the "Transition Model." They have a uniquely marked barrel and some other details to look for.

The 1916 pistol will also have some unique characteristics such as high markings on the slide.

If they are high condition and all correct $8,000 is not a bad price.

Email me if you have more detailed questions.

Regards,
Kevin Williams

[Rob Greer]

As Kevin states, these pistols are both highly desireable, and have distinctive features. If 99% original condition, the transition alone should be about $8,000.

I suspect the 1916 pistol is a Government Model, and not an M1911. 1916 M1911's are very rare, and in 99% condition would be worth far more than $8k... unless it has been restored.

[twaits]

They sound pretty nice from the description. If you end up with them please post pictures!

[Oro]

For good illustrations of what to look for, visit this site:

http://www.coolgunsite.com/

The "1911 Gallery" will have at least one well photographed transition and some early examples for you to compare to the 1916 sample.

Besides vetting the slide/frame match, checking that small parts are correct to the period is important. Barrel, hammer, triggers, safeties, and grips. If you have the Clawson book, you have the information you need and that site above can give some more visual help. Also check out the "ID" pages for help with small parts visual ID.

[colt22dotcom]

I now have possession of the 1911A1 transition, although I have not paid for it and do not yet own it. I will not see the 1916 dated 1911 until Thursday. The 1916 gun is military marked and SN 1365xx. Pictures of the transition follow.












No markings on top of the barrel.




No K on bottom of barrel. It has a G instead. Also has COLT 45 AUTO on side of barrel.

Comments welcome.

Bob Rayburn

[dsk]

The pistol itself looks great, but that's a real bummer about the barrel. The one in there belongs to a later pistol. A correct K-marked barrel by itself is just about impossible to find.

[colt22dotcom]

They sound pretty nice from the description. If you end up with them please post pictures!

Pictures of the 1911 now posted at the top of the thread.

[Rob Greer]

I suspect the 1916 pistol is a Government Model, and not an M1911. 1916 M1911's are very rare, and in 99% condition would be worth far more than $8k... unless it has been restored.

I stand happily corrected on my assumption! That is a very nice looking Military pistol! Is it "S" marked or "H" marked (or both)? (Back of slide, back of barrel, and top of frame if I remember the locations correctly.) Because you posted pictures, I hope means that you bought them both! (The only negative I saw on either pistol was the barel on the transitional...) Congrats!! I still don't have a 1916 in my collection... never mind one as nice as that!