.45 ACP CARTRIDGE - Did Colt Develop It?

[rhmc24]

To compete in the semi-auto pistol market, several already in Europe, Colt (Browning) markets the 1900 in .38ACP which with design changes, becomes the 1902 Military. The U.S. Military had decided on .45 caliber, so Colt does a pretty simple modification to the .38ACP, identical design to produce the .45ACP 1905 Colt, which after a lot of changes & interim models becomes the 1911. I'm pretty much up to speed about the pistols but little info is available about the cartridge development.

Info and/or comments appreciated.

[Colt-SL]

My understanding was that Colt did not develope the 45 ACP; John Browning did. He developed it for the Colt pistol. (Sitting back waiting to hear from the experts though)

[Collects]

ACP stands for Automatic Colt Pistol.

The experts will arrive soon.

[oldcanuck]

My understanding was that Colt did not develope the 45 ACP; John Browning did. He developed it for the Colt pistol. (Sitting back waiting to hear from the experts though)

I believe this to be correct as well.

[Oyeboten]

I think the .45 ACP Cartridge as we know it, was originally proposed by John Browning for the Pistol development he had in mind, and, probably his proposition had quite narrow peramiters, and, the Cartridge was then in effect 'Developed' into an actuality by one of the Ammunition Manufacturers of the day, for use in the .45 ACP Pistol(s) which John Browning was developing for Colt to manufacture.

Just as had been the case in 1898 with the .38 ACP Cartridge, and, soon after, with the .32 ACP and later on, the .380 ACP and .25 ACP Cartridges.

All of these "ACP" Cartridges were John Browning's proposals or evolved along with prototypes made by cutting down and modifying existing Rifle Shells, but in either event, done while working with which-ever Ammunition Manufacturer, for use in Pistols which John Browning was developing for either Colt or FN to Manufacture...even if FN left out the 'ACP' suffix, of course.

As far as I can tell, the .45 ACP Cartridge, in the Pistols it was meant to be used in originally, was the peer and successor Ballisticalaly, to the .44 Russian Cartridge, when it was used in those Martial Revolvers intended for it.

Likely, to my mind anyway, this had been part of the intention.

[haggis]

JMB's original .45 ACP design was for a 200 grain bullet. The US Army wanted something heavier, and they compromised on a 230 grain.

Buck

[Oyeboten]

Yes...sounds right...

I think the Model of 1905 .45 ACP was 200 Grain, and, 900 FPS.

Then, the final form of the .45 ACP Cartridge was 230 Grain, 850 FPs.


I think I have confused the .44 Russian with the .44 Shoefield Cartridge when thinking back on this...the latter is closer to the final .45 ACP Ballistically than is the former.

[xcpd69]

I believe the cartridge you're thinking of is the 45 Schofield, AKA 45 S&W. Since there were a number of S&W Schofield revolvers issued that could not chamber the longer 45 Colt round, the 45 Schofield became the standard 45 caliber cartridge issued by the Army, since it would chamber in BOTH the S&W Schofield and 1873 Colt SAA.

[Ken Hill]

The .45 came about as a result of the Thompson La Garde studies in 1904. La Garde a medical officer supervised the use of varied ammunition on human cadavers, live and dead animals. The first choice for a bullet was a .476 caliber lead bullet weighing 286 grains and the second was the .45 caliber lead bullet made by Union Metalic Cartridge in 250 grains. The decision was made to adopt a bullet no less that .45 caliber. None of the bullets in the study were jacketed or 230 grain.

I had an ammo collector tell me once that the round was named after the pistol in 1905 for the Calibre .45 Automatic Colt Pistols. The caliber was mandated by the U.S. Army and there were varied weights and powder combinations made to get the best performance. Early.45 ACP ammo was stamped by manufacturer and some had the lot number, month and year of production. Winchester made a 200 grain bullet but then later adopted the 230 grain.

[Oyeboten]

I believe the cartridge you're thinking of is the 45 Schofield, AKA 45 S&W. Since there were a number of S&W Schofield revolvers issued that could not chamber the longer 45 Colt round, the 45 Schofield became the standard 45 caliber cartridge issued by the Army, since it would chamber in BOTH the S&W Schofield and 1873 Colt SAA.

Oh..!

( Blush )

Yes...the .45 Shoefield...

Oh eeeeesh, I sure made a mess out of that one!

Lol...

Thanks...