A question to other FFL holders

[twaits]

Something I have not yet done is to transfer a gun I bought with my license to myself. In other words guns I don't intend to sell. Right now everything I have bought with my license is technically inventory. They are logged in in my book but not logged out unless I sell them. Now if I have a gun that I do not intend to sell, at least not immediately, should I transfer it to myself then if I ever want to sell the gun down the road log it back in then back out again?
I don't know if this matters or not. The agent that interviewed me when I got my license said that anything that is not inventory in my safe should be tagged "not for sale"
So maybe it would be easier to just leave it all as inventory and if I ever decide to let my FFL go transfer all of the inventory to myself before the FFL expires.
Thoughts?

[CoastieN70]

If the gun is to be yours personally then you have to fill out a form 4473 and log the gun out to yourself. Then if you store it in your place of business you would tag it Not For Sale like your agent said...

[dfariswheel]

I'm not sure if the rules have changed since I had an FFL, but you fill out the 4473 to yourself, and tag it if it's in the same building as your business.

If you ever decide to sell it, you sell it as an individual selling a privately owned gun. In other words, you don't put it back on your books.

[GSO]

Twaits -

No, you do not do a Form 4473 on yourself. Excerpt below from ATF FAQ ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - ATF Form 4473

Q: Does a dealer have to execute ATF Form 4473 to take a weapon out of the dealer’s inventory for his or her own use?No. However, the “bound book” must reflect the disposition of the firearm from business inventory to personal use.
However, if the business is a corporation, and the firearm is being transferred to a corporate officer or director for other than business purposes, then a Form 4473 must be executed.
[27 CFR 478.124 and 478.125a]

Dfariswheel is correct that if you later sell it, you sell it as an individual and it is not put back into inventory before being sold. Also, if stored in the same container as inventory, it must be tagged as "not for sale".

Also, when I had my visit from my friendly Industry support agent, he did state (although I can't find in writing) that if I did transfer from inventory, they would expect it to still be in my possession for at least a year after the transfer. Otherwise it looks like you are transferring to yourself then selling it privately to avoid filling out the 4473.

Edit (additional info) - http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...-p-5300-15.pdf
Page 13 of the Quick Reference and Best Practice Guide has an example bound book entry. The explanatory note on page 14 also mentions that the 4473 is not needed for a sole proprietorship.

Off topic.... I had planned to keep a number of guns in inventory as "samples" for customers to shoot before buying, and I'd shoot them as well (have to make sure the merchandise is good). To my shock, I discovered that the Republic of Texas wants to charge me 3% "business personal property tax" on any product I have in inventory at the end of the year. Then they want me to collect State and County sales tax when I sell them.... Yeesh! So I decided all guns would be out of inventory (sold or transferred to self) by the end of this year so I don't get gouged again. I'll have to pay sales tax, but at least I won't have to pay the property tax every year on inventory.

Greg

[JudgeColt]

To avoid the suggestion by the ATF agent to retain a firearm transferred to one's self for a year to avoid the allegation that the transfer was made to avoid the new buyer from having to complete an Form 4473, I always put a personal firearm back on my books before transferring the firearm to a new buyer. That also serves to "clear" the gun from my personal inventory in the event that at some point, the government comes looking for guns based on acquisition and disposition records.

[ohiobuckeye]

It's only necessary to log the gun into your "bound book" the normal way, then simply put your name in the "disposition" side, along with the date, and write in "For owners personal collection"...That's it...no 4473 required and never has been. That was the ATF instruction 20+ years ago, when I got my class I FFL, and I have been doing it all these years and survived all inspections with no problem. Last inspection was in May.
I always remove my personal guns from the FFL licensed premises, but I believe if it remains at the licensed premises, it does require a "not for sale" tag.

[twaits]

Thanks all. And especially to GSO for posting the actual rule. I searched for it but I wasn't getting anywhere. I figured it would be easier to ask here.
I thought you could write a gun to yourself as a disposition then re-enter it if you wanted to sell it. It's still coming from a dealer (yourself) as an aquisition then disposed of again to the next dealer or individual. That makes sense.
I remember someone else a while ago saying a dealer had to fill out a 4473 on themselves to transfer a gun to themselves. That just didn't make make any sense to me. I'm pretty sure as a dealer you're not supposed to fill out a 4473 even when you're buying a gun from another dealer. All your gun purchases when you're a dealer are from that point on AS a dealer, correct?

[GSO]

... All your gun purchases when you're a dealer are from that point on AS a dealer, correct?

I've only been a dealer since last November, but I don't think this is necessarily true. Certainly all guns shipped to you across state lines would have to be shipped to you as a dealer and therefore have to be entered into the bound book. However, I would think face-to-face purchases could be made as an individual. I've recently purchased a King Cobra from a fellow forum member who is in my gun club locally (all of my recent Colt purchases are his fault!), and don't believe that needed to be logged since shipping was not required. I would assume you could also purchase at a gun show or local gun shop as an individual as well and not bother with the bound book. You've got me thinking though....perhaps I should give my ATF POC in San Antonio a call next week just to make sure.

And to JudgeColt - The suggestion to "acquire" the gun from yourself before "disposing" of it in a sale would give the best paper trail for all concerned. Excellent idea!

Greg

[Snubbies]

It is not necessary to complete the 4473 when transferring a gun logged in your book to yourself
as part of your personnel collection. The problem arrises when you go hog wild and transfer several
guns.

[ohiobuckeye]

........The problem arrises when you go hog wild and transfer several
guns.

Not sure what problems would arise. Can you elaborate? There are a few pages in my bound book that look like I am my own best customer(which is true on the few days I really get lucky..., and it's never been questioned by ATF inspectors.