Question on traceability

[pecosriver]

I normally buy my guns FTF but occasionally buy a used gun that is sent to an FFL. I fill out the form and they call it in to verify I can buy a firearm,but they don't give the gun details (make serial #,etc) when they call it in. They do ,however ,record it in their log.If it changes hands several times thru several dealers such as with an old DS, and the gun was later used in a crime,it can be traced to the original dealer and purchaser when new,but how can the gun be tracked to the current owner?

[DWalt]

I don't know how the different state requirements operate, but in general it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to trace one back very far. Regarding original sale, remember it has not been that long since NOTHING about a gun sale at retail was recorded on paper, at least in most states. You paid your money and walked out the gun shop door, no questions asked, just like buying a candy bar.

The most likely scenario would be if one of your guns was siezed for some reason (say an arrest while you were carrying it), and a subsequent LE check showed it as having been stolen by running the SN. And I have no idea how far back such a check can go, assuming a stolen gun was even reported to LE and placed on some database. I'd guess many stolen gun SNs are never placed on any database, as many if not most gun owner theft victims probably never recorded what their SNs were and so do not know.

[XB40]

pecos, the guns can only be traced from the manufacture to the first wholesaler, or retailer. They can be traced from the retailer to the first purchaser, at that point interviews are conducted with that purchaser for a disposition on that particular gun. If stolen and not in NCIS it is pretty much a dead end. If sold, then to whom, and so on and so forth until they find an answer or run out of history. Cheaply made early gun didn't have serial numbers, and better qualitys gun did have serial numbers, smith, colts, winchesters. After 1968 all guns are required to have serial numbers and importer information. Some guns are impossible to trace, period. Briefly how it works.

[pecosriver]

Thanks for the responses.That's pretty much what I thought.The firearms used in the mass shootings were traced quickly,so I assume they were new.

[Road Rat]

Only the folks in Hollywood make it look easy to "trace" a firearm!!!

Almost impossible...........

[ohiobuckeye]

By law, the ATF cannot retain any information from a legal firearms puchase. The conspiracy theorists believe they keep it anyway, but even if they did, they don't have a make, model, or serial number to go with your name. The 4473 form you complete at the time of purchase remains in the dealers records for 20 years and can then be destroyed. The only time ATF would ever receive the information from your 4473 would be via a trace, a criminal investigation, or if the dealer closes shop, all 4473 records less than 20 years old are turned over to ATF at the time the FFL expires. As explained earlier, unless ATF somehow knows which dealer last sold a particular gun via witnesses, receipts, etc, ATF must start the trace at the manufacturer and follow the paper trail. If the paper trail is broken by unrecorded private sales, to continue the trace would depend on the memory of the private sale individuals, if they can be found.

[rhmc24]

I'll confuse any speculation with my facts. I traded in a .40 cal Glock to my LGS, where I originally bought the gun, used. Couple years later my LGS told me to expect to hear from Glock 'legal' about my experience with the gun. The shop had sold it to a LEO in an adjoining county and said LEO had been shot (with my former Glock) by a child 3-4 years old while LEO was asleep. I vaguely recalled (all of this vaguely) reading about the incident in the paper. Seems a law suit was pending against Glock.

A few weeks later a Glock lawyer called - said he wanted to record it - and asked about my experience with the gun while I had it, what I used it for and my comments, if any, specific to the operation of the gun. I told him I had fired it maybe 200 rounds mainly at iron targets at a local range, with no incidents, no malfunctions, etc. I decided I wanted something else and traded it in.

I never heard any more about it.

[dandak]

rhmc you didnt have to tell him ANYTHING just because he was a lawyer, especially if it was recorded. With a court order you would have to but w/o one I wouldn't.
As far as tracing, it is my experience talking to several dealers and former dealers that even after 20 years they keep the paperwork "just in case" so traceability seems pretty likely. A gun is used in a crime. Authorities go to manufacturer who tells them via their records who the distributor was. Distributor tells them which dealership it was shipped to. dealer tells them individual it was sold to. Individual tells them who they sold it to. private sale at a g/s? End of trail. Your buddy via the Colt forum, there you go.

[up196]

Tracability also relies on the accuracy of the entry into the system and the request for the trace. Many years ago when I was a Deputy, we recovered a revolver involved in a shooting at a bar. One of the other deputies ran the serial number as a Winchester. I politely told him it was a Smith & Wesson, but he assured me that it said "32 Winchester" right on the barrel!

[gvf]

I normally buy my guns FTF but occasionally buy a used gun that is sent to an FFL. I fill out the form and they call it in to verify I can buy a firearm,but they don't give the gun details (make serial #,etc) when they call it in. They do ,however ,record it in their log.If it changes hands several times thru several dealers such as with an old DS, and the gun was later used in a crime,it can be traced to the original dealer and purchaser when new,but how can the gun be tracked to the current owner?

Well, I don't know specifically but in my area while the gun may not be checked for illegality (is it true no one does that?) it is tied to you by FFL and Permit records. On my permit is serial number of each gun I own. I know when they want to trace a gun, they are good at it - but I suppose if it was stolen and not known to be used in a crime it must after be off the radar.

I can't believe a gun being transferred isn't run like the person is, I mean against records of guns known to be stolen etc. But I don't know here if and when it's done. Never heard that it was. Hard to believe. How's the purchaser of a used gun supposed to know it's illegal? I don't get it, never have.

Anyone explain that?