Python shooting low with mags

[capstan]

I tried my 1958 Python with some factory loads. I shot the Sellior and Bellot 158 grain soft point 38 special and 357 mag. loads.
I shot them at 20 yards and much to my surprise, the magnum loads shot 5 inches lower than the 38 special loads.
I guess I just assumed that the 38 special load would hit the paper lower than the magnum load. I figured with more recoil and more muzzle flip from the mag. load and considerring the same weight bullet with the 38 special but with less muzzle flip, that the 38 spl.load would print lower.
Just the opposite however.
The only thing I can figure is that the velocity is so much more with the mag. load that (apparently) the bullet gets out of the barrel before all the muzzle flip occurs but with the 38 spl, load although the muzzle flip is less apparently the bullet is in he barrel longer.

I really dont know, but it is an interesting phenomena

Anyone else ever run into this with same weight bullet in357 mag and 38spl. loads?

[ColtSnakes]

I have a 6" gun that shoots .38's about 3 inches higher than .357's at 15 yards or so.

[Kid Sopris]

This is normal that .357 Mag will shoot lower than 38 specials. Adjust your sights to the 357's , use a 6 o'clock hold for the 38's.

[capstan]

Thanks Guys Since I usually shoot 38 special 148 grain hollow base wadcutter reloads,I never actually checked the 158 grain jacketed bullets in 38 spl. and then in 357 mag, one after the other. Just another bit of shooting info. to keep in mind.

[haggis]

cap, you're just hanging onto that cannon really well. The only absolute predictor that one can make about POI is that with the same barrel and same bullet momentum, the lighter (faster) bullet bullet will have the lower POI.

Once you start changing any of those variables, where the bullet impacts is a function of how well you can control recoil to keep the barrel from lifting. In your case, you are controlling the recoil of the .357 well enough that its much faster bullet leaves the barrel when its tilt is low resulting in lower POI. A recoil sensitive person might let that barrel kick up so much that the POI would be much higher.

Buck

[capstan]

cap, you're just hanging onto that cannon really well. The only absolute predictor that one can make about POI is that with the same barrel and same bullet momentum, the lighter (faster) bullet bullet will have the lower POI.

Once you start changing any of those variables, where the bullet impacts is a function of how well you can control recoil to keep the barrel from lifting. In your case, you are controlling the recoil of the .357 well enough that its much faster bullet leaves the barrel when its tilt is low resulting in lower POI. A recoil sensitive person might let that barrel kick up so much that the POI would be much higher.

Buck

That is possible that I might have been gripping the Python a little tighter with the mag loads.

[trap4570]

The theory is that higher velocity results in the bullet leaving the barrel earlier in the recoil process resulting in a lower shot.

[Gatofeo]

It's no theory, it's fact. It's a matter of physics.
During recoil, the barrel is rising in an arc.
Pistol sights, when aligned to hit the center of the target, are actually aligned slightly below the target's center. This is done to compensate for the rise of the barrel during recoil, while the bullet is still in the barrel.
The faster bullet spends less time in the barrel, so it exits the barrel earlier in the arc than a slower bullet, and strikes lower on the target.
Lighter bullets generally have higher velocity, so they exit the barrel earlier in the arc and the bullet strikes lower on target, compared to a heavier bullet of lower velocity.
Heavier bullets, or those with slower velocity will strike higher on target.

However, if you push a 110 gr. bullet at 850 feet per second, and a 158 gr. bullet at an identical 850 fps, they will strike the same place on the target: both spend an identical amount of time in the bore.

The physics of firearms is a fascinating subject. The best book I've found, written so a layman can understand it, is "Understanding Ballistics: Basic to Advanced Ballistics Simplified, Illustrated and Explained," by Robert A. Rinker.
I picked up my copy a few years ago at Barnes & Noble, so it's readily available.

[ccw1911]

I
However, if you push a 110 gr. bullet at 850 feet per second, and a 158 gr. bullet at an identical 850 fps, they will strike the same place on the target: both spend an identical amount of time in the bore.
.

Are you sure about that, have you tested it or relying on theory? The heavier bullet at the same speed will have more recoil.

[stronghorn]

It's no theory, it's fact. It's a matter of physics.
During recoil, the barrel is rising in an arc.
Pistol sights, when aligned to hit the center of the target, are actually aligned slightly below the target's center. This is done to compensate for the rise of the barrel during recoil, while the bullet is still in the barrel.
The faster bullet spends less time in the barrel, so it exits the barrel earlier in the arc than a slower bullet, and strikes lower on the target.
Lighter bullets generally have higher velocity, so they exit the barrel earlier in the arc and the bullet strikes lower on target, compared to a heavier bullet of lower velocity.
Heavier bullets, or those with slower velocity will strike higher on target.

However, if you push a 110 gr. bullet at 850 feet per second, and a 158 gr. bullet at an identical 850 fps, they will strike the same place on the target: both spend an identical amount of time in the bore.

The physics of firearms is a fascinating subject. The best book I've found, written so a layman can understand it, is "Understanding Ballistics: Basic to Advanced Ballistics Simplified, Illustrated and Explained," by Robert A. Rinker.
I picked up my copy a few years ago at Barnes & Noble, so it's readily available.

He pretty much nailed it. It's called 'Barrel Time" a 'slower' heavier (or same weight) will generaly shoot higher than the opposite spectrum of faster/lighter. You really notice this with rifles too.