.357 ammo caution?

[aimtrue]

A question in another forum asked whether .357 ammunition lower than 158gr was harmful to an S&W model 19 revolver. Is this a similar problem in a Python?

[WIL TERRY]

THINK NOW..................HOW and WHY would or could this possibly be so !!!
Were I you, I would be much more concerned with the lousy accuracy many PYTHON 357mag revolvers exhibit. YEP, I have had three of 'em, all 6" versions, and all three to the last gun couldn't hit a cow in the tit with a tin cup.
MY 3" M36 S&W would outshoot all three at 25 yards with any 38SPL ammunition of your choosing.
My S&W M19 4" 357MAG would outshoot all three with any 357MAG ammunition of your choosing and was faster by around 100FPS than all three of the COLT PYTHON sixguns. I am dead serious about all this and am NOT fooling you nor trying to mess with your mind. YES, I am dead sure there are fine shooting PYTHON 357MAG revolvers out there and it might well be just the luck of the draw. Let me also note that a COLT employee told me their factory standard for python accuracy was 3" on their 50' range at the COLT manufacturing facilities.
And so it goes...

PS: forgot this; As we speak my S&W M19 4" 357MAG has 49,000+ rounds through it and is still going strong. Sometime over a cold one I ll relate to you just how GOOD my S&W 6" M19 really is; WOW....

[Colt75]

A question in another forum asked whether .357 ammunition lower than 158gr was harmful to an S&W model 19 revolver. Is this a similar problem in a Python?

I think the problem you are concerned adout relates to the extended use of the .357 Magnum 125gr JHP loads in the S&W Model 19. There are rumors and stories of damage to the forcing cone from extended use of this load in this gun. I have shot a whole bunch of different loads (including a pile of 125gr) through my Model 19 with no problems. I do now avoid the 125gr loads due to the potential for this problem.

I don't think there is any such problem with the Python. The Python was designed to handle full torque loads all the time. It is heavier built than the S&W Model 19. The Colt Python is not a "delicate" revolver despite silly rumors to the contrary. It is a tough durable Colt revolver that will give decades of sevice if not abused.

As for accuracy, I think the Python is one of the most accurate and easy to shoot .357s I have ever fired. JMHO.

Oh yeah, welcome to the forum.

[aimtrue]

Thank you Colt75 for both your comments and the welcome.

[CO_Kid]

Yes 125 gr 357 loads are bad for your pythons. Or, to clarify, too many 125 gr 357 rounds is bad for your Python. They were the cause of the demise of the S&W model 19, 66, Ruger Security 6, and the Colt medium frame wheelguns. The guns were built to withstand the specifics of 158 grain 357 rounds, and not to the 125 grain 357's that became the popular defense round.

Here's why. A 125 gr 357 round burns much hotter and exerts higher pressures than the 158 grain rounds that were standard when the guns were designed. Now the guns can take the occaisional trips to the range with 125 grains without too much problem. The real problem came when police and serious shooters using these guns went from the standard practice of "practice with 38 specials, carry 357's" to practicing with 125 gr 357's full time. The temps and pressures of using 125 grain 357's all the time ate away at the forcing cones and top straps above the barrel cylinder gap. I've seen pics of guns on this site with chipped away forcing cones, probably from this occurring. If you look at any of S&W's aluminum and Scandium framed 357's, you'll see a small piece of steel under the top strap over the barrel cylinder gap, to keep the non-steel frame from being exposed to the gasses going up through the gap.

This was the sole reason for the demise of the K frame S&W 357's. The forcing cone was cut with a flat spot on the bottom for the crane to to fit in the frame. Cracks would develop in this area relatively easily. Notice I didn't say that it would easily happen, but of the service guns of the era, it happened easier to the 19 than the others. It's one of the first things one should look for when buying a used model 19 or 66.

It pretty much was the sole reason Bill Ruger developed the beefy GP-100 to replace the Security six, same issues.

So in summation. Yes you can shoot 125 grain 357's through your Python, in moderation. A coupld cylinder's of 125 grain rounds to test the ammo you plan on carrying is fine. However don't shoot 125 grain rounds through it every weekly trip to the range. What Colt75 said about the Python being a more robust gun is true. Colt's I frame is larger and more robust than S&W's K frame, however it was still built to take 158 grain rounds, so the 125 grain rounds will still do the same thing, but at a slower rate than the K frame S&W guns.

[aimtrue]

C0_Kid


Thank you for your detailed post. Now I understand the problem more fully.

[used2x4]

I love Colt Pythons and Colts in General, But I have my Dads 1963 5" nickel Model 27 Smith & wesson, Now that pistol can out shoot anything on the market..and It can shoot 125 gr as much as you want. I really don't think they made a better 357mag than the older N frame Smiths.

[CO_Kid]

I love Colt Pythons and Colts in General, But I have my Dads 1963 5" nickel Model 27 Smith & wesson, Now that pistol can out shoot anything on the market..and It can shoot 125 gr as much as you want. I really don't think they made a better 357mag than the older N frame Smiths.

I don't think they did either. Problem was the weight. The K frame was great to carry around, but the problem that is the topic of this thread arose. Their L frame, Rugers GP 100, and to an extent Colt's Python all come to a compromise between the size needed and the weight being light enough to carry for longer periods.

[Bill]

Two questions to clarify the above :

1.) The 125 gr round which is referred to here is the one which produces m.e. of 580 ft/lb from a 4" , manufactured by Federal and others ?

A 125 gr round which produces m.e. of 515 ft/lb from a 4 " does not fall in this " detrimental to the gun in the long run " category ?

2.) A 158 gr round , eg Buffalo Bore ,which produces 763 ft/lb from a 4" is not detrimental to the revolver ?

[Colt75]

Two questions to clarify the above :

1.) The 125 gr round which is referred to here is the one which produces m.e. of 580 ft/lb from a 4" , manufactured by Federal and others ?

A 125 gr round which produces m.e. of 515 ft/lb from a 4 " does not fall in this " detrimental to the gun in the long run " category ?

2.) A 158 gr round , eg Buffalo Bore ,which produces 763 ft/lb from a 4" is not detrimental to the revolver ?

These days I avoid all 125 gr loads in my Model 19 Snubby. I don't think most 158 gr loads are a problem.