125 gr in 38spl - what is the limit ?

[Bill]

My question posted at the end of another thread refers

I am very keen to learn what the limit of the 125 gr in 38 spl is .

With reference to the thread on 357 magnum ammo caution - if the 125 gr 357 magnum is problematical in terms of the flame it produces will this apply to a " hot " 38 spl as well and what is hot ?

I note Buffalo Bore makes a +p with m.e. of 439 ft/lb form a 4 “ barrel. Is this the “old fashioned” loading for this round before all the nonsense with weak ammo started or is it a round which can also be expected to cause some damage to the revolver over time because of flame cutting ?

Remington’s 125 gr “ magnum” at 413 ft/lb from a 4” barrel has been described elsewhere on this forum for what it is – a “ magnum” to fire from the snubnose .

We cannot buy Buffalo Bore in South Africa however the Remington, which I consider to be an almost full power 38 spl , is available .

Your comments will be much appreciated

[WIL TERRY]

PRECISELY what " limit " are you asking about ???

[Bill]

Sorry , let me explain

I need to understand two things :

• What is the strongest load that a 125 gr 38 spl round can have , ie to be shot out of a 38 spl revolver - is it more than the Buffalo Bore round , or is that the upper limit ?
• Will a " hot" 125 gr 38 spl round have similar detrimental effects to the 357 magnum round as discussed in another thread

[Hobie]

One does not load the .38 Special, even +P, to the pressures of the .357 Magnum and so the top strap erosion, aka flame cutting, won't be as severe as with the .357 Magnum.

Remember, ALL ammo does this to some extent, it is just that a low pressures one is not going to get the same EFFECT on the top strap. Throw in a number of other variables such as the actual material used to create a top strap (or barrel), the cartridge (the diameter is important), the actual pressures, the chemical components of the powder used, and so forth and there can be a great variation (in practical terms) in the effect the gases will have on eroding exposed firearms parts.

In my experience, loads which don't exceed .38 Special +P manual recommendations will not have a noticeable deleterious effect on modern .38 Special revolvers in good condition.

[capstan]

+1 what hobie said

I dont think a hot 38 special would have as much flame cutting effect as a medium 357 mag load. I've actually never heard of a 38 special frame with that problem but maybe someone here has shot alot of really hot 38 loads and has experienced that flame cutting problem??

[CO_Kid]

My dad was a reloader when I was growing up, and he'd hot load 38's. Probably somewhere between +P and +P+. We shot the dickens out of those rounds (scrounged wheelweight metal was almost always free, powder and primers were cheap as hell in bulk too). Never had the problems associated with shooting 357's out of medium frame guns.

Based on my experience, and that i stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night, I am confident that you could shoot as many 38 special +P's as you could possibly get your hand on, and the gun will still outlive you.

[Bill]

Many thanks to all for your valuable comments

[ZigZagMarquis]

I have question too about loading 125grn Hollow Points in .38 Special.

I was about to start a new thread, but saw this thread and figured I'd ask here.

I have some Speer #4013 125grn UCHPs that I was thinking about loading up to shoot in my .38Spl OMM.

So, I crack open my copy of Speer's reloading manual and I find that for that bullet in .38Spl they note a max load, no min / starting load and DNR (DO NOT REDUCE) from the max load listed.

This makes me go... HUH?

So I pull out several other reloading manuals I have and look see what they say about loading 125grn HPs in .38Spl.

This makes me go... HUH? ... again.

So I type up the spread sheet (see the encl). When looking at it, numbers in green indicate what is noted as the max / do not exceed load in that particular book and a number followed by an asterisk ( * ) are those listed as +P loads in that particular manual.


Now I'm really starting to scratch my head.


Why does the Speer manual list a max load, no starting load and say DNR, but other manuals do?

Also, I would have expected the various recipes for a 125grn HP w/ the same powder to line up better across the different mfgr's bullets / manuals, but they don't.

What am I missing?

Thoughts?

[capstan]

ZigZag, I dont think you're missing anything. That's an informative spread sheet and you hit the nail on the head. The data books do vary ALOT.
I started several threads on this,as I came up scratching my head like you did.
I have loaded quite a few Hornady HPXTP's in various weights
I loaded up some 125 grain bullets with 5.0 grains of bullseye.and they are fairly hot relatively speaking. In fact they seem about as hot as some factory +P designated loads. But none of them showed any sign of over pressure. The cases ejected smoothly and the primer hits were well defined.
My one Det Spl. shoots really tight groups and shoots about an inch above my 6oclock hold at 15 yards,and is pretty much dead on at closer range with 4.6 grains of bullseye and the 125 grain HPXTP. This is a medium 38 spl. load per the Hornandy manual
I mostly shoot this load in that DS because of the accuracy but it will shoot the 5 grain bullseye load almost as well.I figure I wont wear it out quite as fast with the "milder" load.
This summer I want to "test" alot more using the cronograph and make up a chart like you did (with velocity also)to see how various handloads perform and what the factory +P loads show.