Loading for Colt alloy-framed revolvers--need suggestions.

[Eldon Hickey]

I just got a 60's vintage Colt Agent in very good shape. I plan to carry it occasionally and want to come up with a standard P defense load that won't damage the gun--I like to practice with my carry loads. I've been using the Speer 158gr SWCHP over 4.7 gr of Unique in my 642, LCR, and D Specials. Unique load data is all over the map--showing Plus P beginning at from 4.3 to 5.1 gr. with the 158 gr bullet. I consider 4.7 "borderline plus P" based on chronographed velocity and feel it's on the hot side for the Agent. Anyone out there carry/load for an Agent? I'm thinking 4.2 grains might be the ticket, but would like to hear from someone who's had experience with these little revolvers.

[Frank237]

Eldon,

I've probably loaded more +P loads in .38 cases than standard pressure loads over the years.

Here recently I started casting a very nice 155 and 162 gr SWC from a Lyman mould. I was out of Unique so tried some std pressure loads with HS-6 and some WW231.
Both were accurate and despite a fairly low drop in pressure and velocity...they were far more pleasant to shoot. Especially out of my snub guns.

I reevaluated my loading and now do my old +P 172 gr Keith slug/Unique load, for the magnum guns, and the standard pressure HS-6/WW 231 loads for the rest of them.

I've always considered the alloy snubbies to be "Carry a lot...Shoot very little" guns. I've got a Smith M-12 2" that I carried for some years. Fed it a steady diet of wadcutters but Qualified twice a year with 158 gr std pressure SWC's. Then again...it's your gun...do what You feel is right.

Those Agents ARE a treat aren't they? Six shots, shootable size, and weigh close to nothing.

FN in MT

[smkummer]

Just got back from the ranged and fired my 1984 parkerized agent with original wood stocks and a pachmayr grip adapter. The 1984 agent really had a full grip frame of the cobra (3 fingers fit) so it may not be a true comparison. It is a sweet shooter with 3.2 grain 231 and a hollow base wadcutter that I can plink all day long with. A plus P load of 5.2 grains unique behind a 158 SWC does have some bite to the hand but in a gunfight, that will be the least of your concerns. This gun is my "car" gun which can double as a carry gun that is shot 1 or 2 times a year with wadcutters or standard pressure loads and carried with factory Plus P Remington 110 JHP which I feel better carrying factory loads for legal matters over handloads. At the ranges (10 yards or less) that I fire, it does not matter if a load prints slightly high or low. If you have the origianal short wood stocks for your agent, just make sure you can fire and hit with whatever load you carry. I too have a early 60's agent that I can only fit 2 fingers in the grip frame and can hold it with plus P ammo but some may think its to hard to hold with that little grip and a hot load. Prior to getting to Plus P levels, you may find yourself stopping because of recoil/pain with the short grip frame gun.

[bmcgilvray]

I carry .38 Special revolvers most of all for personal protection and they are all loaded with +P 158 grain semi-wadcutter ammunition whether factory or handloaded equivalent. Doesn't matter what barrel length is being toted, doesn't matter if it is the Smith & Wesson Model 642 with its alloy frame. I'm not into all this boutique ammo, short-barreled stuff, and whatever is ammo-du-jour at the local gun shop.

The little Colt alloy-framed guns are awfully nice and make good sense to carry. They would be one .38 Special that I would carry with standard velocity ammunition. I'd choose some sort of sharp-shouldered 158 grain semi-wadcutter load and be happy. Even though I load with +P I don't feel that there's all that much difference in performance between standard velocity and the supposedly higher intensity +P.

I do like the bullets on the heavier end of the weight range for .38 Special, having no use for the 110-125 grain loadings. If one is going to rely on light bullets then he may as well tote a .380 pistol. This is only one opinion.

Any current light-bullet factory loads I've tested over the chronograph were pretty disappointing in velocity performance.

I retested my favorite .38 Special loads using Unique and cast lead 158 grain semi-wadcutters over the chronograph last summer. While a different batch of bullets could certainly be a factor, I came away with the distinct impression that Unique as currently produced gave more "enthusiastic" performance than it has previously. The 158 grain SWCs all yielded considerably higher velocities than they did with the same loads assembled 30-35 years ago.

For a classic alloy-framed revolver from Colt or Smith & Wesson I think about 4.8 grains of Unique is about as high as I'd load behind a 158 grain lead bullet. The old maximum charge weight of 5.4 grains of Unique with this bullet weight as was published in several different manuals of bygone days (particularly the Lyman) gave velocities of 842 fps from a 2-inch barrel and 935 fps from a 4-inch barrel in chronograph testing I conducted in summer of 1980.

Same load with "new" Unique gave 964 fps from a 2-inch barrel (different revolver than in 1980) and 1026 fps from a 4-inch barrel (same revolver as used in the 1980 tests).

I'm rethinking my old favorite standard field load for .38 Special which consists of 4.8 grains of Unique and the 158 grain SWC.

Unique's great unless one loads it too light. Then it's sooty and prone to more smoke. Shot-to-shot velocity variations over the chronograph screens seemed to widen with light loads of Unique. The 4.8 charge always had seemed like a good moderate load that gave reasonable performance from the .38 Special cartridge. Now I'm inclined to think that 4.8 grains might be an upper-end load for 158 grain bullets. The 5.4 grain max load should be reserved for limited use or for very strong revolvers.

[Eldon Hickey]

Thanks for the replies.
I like the heavier bullets in snubbies too.
I'm clocking 815 fps out of a 642 with 158gr SWCHP over 4.7gr Unique...borderline plus P velocity but am concerned about feeding a steady diet of these to the little Agent. I may work up a practice load trying 4.2 gr or so and reserve the others for carry. I've used HS6 too....6 gr with the same bullet. Didn't have a chrony then so don't know what velocity I was getting...I do recall that lighter charges were pretty sooty.