What do I have here?
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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colt Squeezer View Post
    I hope I'm not hijacking this thread; my question below appears relative to the original poster's question...but I'm still new here, and I don't want to step on someone.

    In just a few days I'll be shooting my new (to me) 1908 Colt Police Positive Special 38. My plan was to use 125 grain .38 Special FMJ's, but now I'm hesitating.

    Could Oyeboten or someone else please explain a little bit more about why jacketed rounds should not be used in these old guns? What are the "Forcing cones", and why would FMJ's crack the cones in older guns?

    Thanks, Alex
    Alex,

    The forcing cone is the entry-end (as opposed to the exit-end) of the barrel that rides up against the cylinder.

    Despite the most careful alignment of the cylinder chamber to the barrel, small discrepancies do exist. When a revolver is fired, the bullet leaves the cartridge case, exits the cylinder chamber and "jumps" the gap between the the cylinder and the barrel. When you open the cylinder and look at the entry-end of the barrel, you will see that a short length of the inside diameter of the barrel is tapered and slightly wider than the rest of the barrel. This is the forcing cone and it "forces" the moving bullet to align itself to the barrel axis.

    As the bullet transitions from the cylinder chamber through the forcing cone, it (the bullet) also compresses (the bullet is larger in diameter than the barrel) and scrapes itself through the forcing cone. A soft, plain lead bullet compresses rather easily. A harder, jacketed bullet does not. A jacketed bullet, a "hot" or +P(ressure) load moving very fast may stress the forcing cone area and cause it to crack or break. This damage is sometimes accumulative...sometimes it is catastrophic.

    The forcing cone also rides tightly against the cylinder in order to prevent the superheated gases from escaping sideways from the small gap between the rotating cylinder and the entry end of the barrel - gases, as well as particles of unburned propellant and particles of lead or other shavings from the bullet as it forces its way into and down the barrel.

    This is probably poorly explained. I tried

    Soft lead bullets good.
    ---
    "Bridgeport?" said I, pointing.
    "Camelot," said he.

  2. #12
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    I shoot mild 148 gr. dead lead wadcuters in my old .38 specials. There is really no need to drive 'em to warp 9 anyway, and especially in an older gun.
    Keep the high power loads for the newer ones.
    I imagine we have all hot-loaded rounds at one time or another. I soon came to the conclusion that there was no point in it.
    We all make mistakes....The key is to learn and not repeat the error, however slight.
    Before I had things figured out, I once hot-loaded some 110 JHP for one of my 6' Pythons. There was way too much commotion, the rounds were difficult to handle easily, and the accuracy was seriously degraded. Then I learned about light bullets going way too fast in revolvers. I just won't do it again. I didn't damage anything, but I was kind of an ill advised effort.
    Safety first.
    If you want hotter rounds, bigger bangs, and a huge muzzle flash, get a bigger gun. It will do everything better, and the old hardware will be spared.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColtPlinkerton View Post
    ...
    This is probably poorly explained. I tried
    Soft lead bullets good.
    This was a beautifully stated explanation. Many thanks!
    Last edited by Colt Squeezer; 10-23-2019 at 01:15 AM.
    Experience Vintage, Everyday

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  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I shoot mild 148 gr. dead lead wadcuters in my old .38 specials. There is really no need to drive 'em to warp 9 anyway, and especially in an older gun.
    Keep the high power loads for the newer ones.
    I imagine we have all hot-loaded rounds at one time or another. I soon came to the conclusion that there was no point in it.
    We all make mistakes....The key is to learn and not repeat the error, however slight.
    Before I had things figured out, I once hot-loaded some 110 JHP for one of my 6' Pythons. There was way too much commotion, the rounds were difficult to handle easily, and the accuracy was seriously degraded. Then I learned about light bullets going way too fast in revolvers. I just won't do it again. I didn't damage anything, but I was kind of an ill advised effort.
    Safety first.
    If you want hotter rounds, bigger bangs, and a huge muzzle flash, get a bigger gun. It will do everything better, and the old hardware will be spared.
    Thanks for sharing you experience.

    My intent is to shoot low-power rounds through this PPS. Issues with my hand and arm are forcing the direction that I take.

    I have one box of FMJ 125 grain already on-hand, so I was going to do the gun evaluation with those. Now it looks like I wont use the FMJ's..

    I'll start with some 148 wadcutters for target and home-defense since they have a known low recoil. After that...we'll see, but my objective is low recoil, not Tim Allen's "More Power!".

    Thanks again, Alex
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    Experience Vintage, Everyday

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colt Squeezer View Post
    Thanks for sharing you experience.

    My intent is to shoot low-power rounds through this PPS. Issues with my hand and arm are forcing the direction that I take.

    I have one box of FMJ 125 grain already on-hand, so I was going to do the gun evaluation with those. Now it looks like I wont use the FMJ's..

    I'll start with some 148 wadcutters for target and home-defense since they have a known low recoil. After that...we'll see, but my objective is low recoil, not Tim Allen's "More Power!".

    Thanks again, Alex
    Please start a nice little Thread about your Colt and post us some pictures of it so we can see it..!
    oberon and Colt Squeezer like this.

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oyeboten View Post
    Please start a nice little Thread about your Colt and post us some pictures of it so we can see it..!
    I will do just that. I expect to receive the Colt on Friday.
    Experience Vintage, Everyday

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    Check those stocks (grips).. If ivory or pre-war ivory, then you’ve got something valuable.
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