The M-1909 Cartridge....
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    The M-1909 Cartridge....

    Just to pass on something I learned rather recently: Most here abouts know the Colt New Service was the Army's M-1909 revolver, as well as the Marine's M-1909. Frankford arsenal loaded a special cartidge close to the commercial .45 Colt round, but having a slightly larger diameter rim. This for more positive extraction with the extractor star of the New Service. Originally this was to have been loaded with Bullseye powder. However Bullseye did not work satisfactorily in the long .45 Colt case. The Army asked DuPont to develop a special powder for use in this ammunition. For years I only knew that the powder was RSQ powder, and was never used in any other commercial ammunition.

    DuPont dubbed the powder Revolver Special Quality,hence the RSQ designation.

    Just thought I'd pass that along to anybody who didn't know that.


    Bob Wright
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    Thanks Bob !!

    .
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    Thin .45 Colt rims are the reason Winchester never originally chambered any of their lever action rifles for the .45 Colt.
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    The bottom 3 boxes are RSQ loads:
    cartridge_boxes.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwjhfs View Post
    The bottom 3 boxes are RSQ loads:
    cartridge_boxes.jpg
    I have never seen the .45 ACP issued in clips before. Thank you for that! Those cartridges should have the three punch marks around the perimeter of the case, near the mouth. This to keep recoil from pulling the bullets forward when used in the revolver.



    Just in case someone might not know, the "EC" headstamp stands for "Evansville Chrysler" and the "EC S" stands for "Evansville Chrysler Sunbeam". Chrysler operated the Evansville (Ind.) Ordnance Plant during WW II and were instrumental in developing steel cased cartridges for the expected shortage of copper. Output was such that the Sunbeam Plant there was pressed into service to help supply cartridge cases.



    And, some M-1909 cartridges:

    Last edited by BobWright; 01-21-2020 at 02:57 PM.
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    Yes Bob, the acp's for use in the 1917 revolver have the punch marks.
    acpdimple.jpg

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    The original load for the Model 1909 revolver was 5 grains of Bullseye, and the .45 Colt case would accept a double charge of Bullseye, and apparently did. After a few overloads Ordnance had du Pont develop the more bulky R.S.Q. powder mentioned above. The new load was 8.4 grains of the R.S.Q., and the case would not accept a double charge of this powder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwjhfs View Post
    Yes Bob, the acp's for use in the 1917 revolver have the punch marks.
    acpdimple.jpg

    I don't know if you've read the same reports that I have or not, but those cannelures were a source of problems with the experimental M-1906 cartridges. Colt wanted those cannelures at the base of the bullet to prevent bullet set-back during functioning. Smith & Wesson objected to them as they lessened neck tension and allowed the bullet to "walk" forward during recoil in the revolver.

    Bob Wright
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkLord View Post
    Thin .45 Colt rims are the reason Winchester never originally chambered any of their lever action rifles for the .45 Colt.
    It wasn't the thinnish of the rim, but the small diameter, as compared to the .44-40 and the .38-40.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muley Gil View Post
    It wasn't the thinnish of the rim, but the small diameter, as compared to the .44-40 and the .38-40.
    If you will examine Colt designed cartridges of the era, you will notice this is a characteristic of all of them. Whether by intent or not, this made them unsuitable for use in the Smith & Wesson top breaks with their multiple ejection.

    Bob Wright
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