Colt 1908 .25 US Property?
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Thread: Colt 1908 .25 US Property?

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    Colt 1908 .25 US Property?

    Any thoughts regarding the authenticity of this "U.S. Property Marked Colt Model 1908 Vest Pocket Pistol" offered by RIA in their September auction:

    https://www.rockislandauction.com/de...-pocket-pistol
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    According to Brunner, no .25 autos were USP marked by Colt but several have been spuriously marked by others. Wonder why there is no letter
    Last edited by Rick Bowles; 07-27-2019 at 05:12 AM.
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    It's not listed in the Springfield records, the roll mark is markedly different than most encountered ( round periods and the font) and the single British proof and not English made, but no proofs on barrel or frame. Seems like the consensus is that if vest pockets were marked they were marked by arsenals when they were returned after the war. The British proofs and not english made stamp would tend to indicate that this pistol was surplus by the brits for public sale. It just doesn't add up for me and going by RIA's price estimate I don't think it adds up for them either.
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    They state that it was manufactured in 1929 10 years before the start of WWII. Needs a Colt letter.

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    Buyer beware. I would have to have some provenance/proof before bidding in the estimated range. IMHO $350-400 as a NOVELTY.
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    The USP marking is very professionally pantagraphed. Brunner indicates that there is no documentation that any of the .25 Pocket Hammerless were USP marked.
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    The interesting thing here is that I would consider the “Not English Make”, part of the British commercial proofs under the Rule of 1925 which was in use until 1955, almost certainly authentic. It is apparently older than the US PROPERTY stamping and shows sign of buffing which are absent from the property marking.

    Since the British commercial proofing did not occur until AFTER the guns had been sold out of service, and before they could be sold on the commercial market, the conclusion that the US PROPERTY was a later addition unrelated to the gun’s service seems inescapable. It was probably refinished at the time.
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    The interesting thing here is that I would consider the “Not English Make”, part of the British commercial proofs under the Rule of 1925 which was in use until 1955, almost certainly authentic. It is apparently older than the US PROPERTY stamping and shows sign of buffing which are absent from the property marking.

    Since the British commercial proofing did not occur until AFTER the guns had been sold out of service, and before they could be sold on the commercial market, the conclusion that the US PROPERTY was a later addition unrelated to the gun’s service seems inescapable. It was probably refinished at the time.
    I think you are exactly right.
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    So kwill and Absalom, would you give us an idea of when and why this Model N has this finish and markings. Mfg'd 1929 in blue finish, brought to England between 1929 and 1942?, British commercial markings sometime during or after WWII?, US Property and parkerizing by U.S. when, where and why????
    Can you see any scenario that this might be right?
    PS I'm not saying that I wouldn't mind bidding or owning this Model N, but nowhere near the estimated range w/o facts.

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    A goodly number of years ago, a wealthy, older Colt collector had a handful of these marked and finished to give to his friends as gifts - the number varies between 25 and 40 - it wasn't done to deceive, since it was common knowledge that they weren't military-issued items - rather, a sort of 'commemorative' thing for martial collectors, and given with no malice intended, but given for those reasons that people give gifts.

    Fast-forward a few decades - those collectors' collections are hitting the market, and have done so for awhile -coupled with the fact that a number of the giftees sold them off for profit amongst the unwary - rectal pores will do that thing...

    Whether or not this piece comes from that period, I don't know - nor do I care - but articles do exist showing several fonts and sizes of Ordnance markings, so 'someone' had himself a hobby.
    Last edited by dogface6; 07-27-2019 at 05:28 PM.
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