The Swinging Link?
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  1. #1
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    Question The Swinging Link?

    The only other pistol I know of besides the 1911 that uses the swinging link under the barrel to pull the barrel out of the slide is the Soviet TT-33.

    Almost every other modern auto-pistol since uses some form of the ramp/cam set-up used on the P-35 Hi-Power , VIS Radom , Star , S&W , CZ-75 , Sig-Sauer P-series , Glock , et al.

    Yes , there are some that use far more complex (and expensive) locking set ups , but the 'Browning'(?) HP cam is easily the most prevalent.

    So why hasn't anyone made a 1911 with a cam barrel lock-up? The Colt-owned patents and reason JMB/DS came up with the cam are long expired.

    The swinging link works well , but does have some drawbacks. Early Colt autos had TWO swinging links , fore and aft on the barrel.

    Opinions?

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    There have been some so called improvements to the Model O since it’s introduction, fingers on the barrel bushing, full length guide rod, etc. Not to mention some of the little tricks by Swenson and others. I tend to think like Les Baer, fitment is the true key to accuracy without a change to the original design. Shoot one of his 1.5” guns and you’ll be convinced that he’s correct.

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    John Browning's 1911 pistol does not need to be improved on.

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    Another "swing link" is a rather rare Hungarian FEG Tokagypt T-58, which is basically a post-war 9mm Tokarev TT-33.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shooter214 View Post
    John Browning's 1911 pistol does not need to be improved on.
    John Browning, the Army and Colt pretty much got it right out of the gate. The only real improvements since have been in metallurgy and details such as better sight designs. Everything else has been personal touches and customizers promoting their own brand enhancements.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkk41 View Post

    Almost every other modern auto-pistol since uses some form of the ramp/cam set-up used on the P-35 Hi-Power , VIS Radom , Star , S&W , CZ-75 , Sig-Sauer P-series , Glock , et al.

    Opinions?

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    When you find one of these that can shoot into 2" at 50 yards from a machine rest every time like a NM built by Springfield armory in the 50's, please feel free to repost and let us know. For now the Colt swinging link system works exceptionally well. Les Baer's groups are shot at 25 yards. That being said, none of the guns on the list mentioned here will equal either one. Most of those are descent and the Browning HP is exceptional in design and execution. But the 1911 is the king when it comes to accuracy in a big bore semi auto. The S&W 52 was competitive in center fire events but no such item like that exists in 45 ACP. And the S&W was notorious for it's unreliability and need for alibi's in competition. It also only used flush seated wadcutters in .38 special. The newer 9mm versions don't do as well as the original. The S&W 4506 can't equal the accuracy of the original Colts.
    Last edited by flintsghost; 11-08-2019 at 07:44 AM.
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    This thing about accuracy looks great on the surface. In the real world,so what if a 1911 that is accurized can shoot super tight groups from rest, accurate ammo,etc,the real truth for me is MOST shooters can’t duplicate this on their own by picking the pistol up and just shooting it off hand. Some of these efforts to make it more accurate,also make for things that are tighter,which can effect reliability,which to me was the best thing going for the original 1911 design.
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    The Browning P-35 is legendary in its own right. Browning had to come up with a different action to circumvent his own patents assigned to Colt or the Hi-Power would likely have used a swinging link as well. It's a tribute to his genius that he was able to do so.
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    Get out the popcorn - a thread like this can go on ad infinitum...
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturmgewehr View Post
    This thing about accuracy looks great on the surface. In the real world,so what if a 1911 that is accurized can shoot super tight groups from rest, accurate ammo,etc,the real truth for me is MOST shooters can’t duplicate this on their own by picking the pistol up and just shooting it off hand. Some of these efforts to make it more accurate,also make for things that are tighter,which can effect reliability,which to me was the best thing going for the original 1911 design.
    True statements those, todays custom 1911's wouldn't do very well in early 1900's trench warfare. In fact LB recommends that his 1.5" guns not be used for personal protection / concealed carry. My own experience was when I got my LB Concept 8, put five shots of 230 grain ball on target and realized that the gun was way better than I was, or maybe I was better than the guns I'd been using previously.


 
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