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How to identify NOS Colt parts (v spring actions)

11K views 26 replies 11 participants last post by  capstan 
#1 · (Edited)
I figured since I have acquired most of the parts I need, I could share some of my knowledge learned from these purchases without worrying about competition for what I am seeking.:D

When it comes to buying Colt parts, it is almost imperative that you get New Old Stock (NOS), or at the very least high condition used parts. With prices people are asking for critical components, it is good to know what you are looking at and what to look for. I don't cover everything, mainly just the stuff I have acquired, which is what one might commonly need with shooters that are used. Besides explaining how to evaluate parts, I will also share some things I learned about part compatibility and slight differences from eras. Plus show you how I keep them stored, and my 'smithing bin'.

Most of the stuff I see for sale is severely worn, trashed, and most likely unusable. You want to avoid those at all costs. Usually people who have true NOS parts, and know it, charge quite high prices. However, there are other people who are selling NOS parts and don't know it. That is where deals can be had, and you end up with quality parts for cheap.

I usually just browse the auction sites. I will buy single pieces or parts lots, but only when the price is right. Never pay over what you could get from a parts company cheaper. One of my biggest scores, with the most NOS parts, was bought as a lot for about $50. I made a couple hundred selling off what I didn't want and keeping the honey. All my other parts were bought for dollars and even cents on occasion. I understand most people won't even consider tinkering on a Colt, and therefore have no interest in buying parts. Those of you who do or have a desire, should find this info much help.

The parts I describe are mostly for newer models. The E,I,D frames with V spring action specifically, but also the 3rd gen SAA. I have no interest in the newer models with sintered/cast steel internals so can't help you there. Once you get pre-war, part design could be much different, only usable in those older models, and very hard to find with quality. One reason I don't pursue older Colts, as I like to have shooters and be able to fix any issue that comes up. Some of the post war parts vary in design too, as you will see, but should still work for the frame type with proper fitting.

The main thing to look for when examining parts is whether they have any wear. Those of us who tinker know where to look for this evidence. Others probably have no idea, so these pictures will show the areas to examine. A true NOS part should have NO wear and machining marks should still be present. A good quality used part will have very little wear and minimal fitting marks. If the areas are not clearly pictured in a sales ad, then ask for better pictures of the specific areas you need. If they don't comply, pass and look elsewhere, or take the risk at losing money. A return policy is great, in case the part doesn't meet the standards for usability.

Before beginning, if you like what you read, and feel it is very helpful, please find the 6 pointed star in the lower left of my posts and give me some positive reputation points. Just click the star, click the 'approve' circle to check it, leave a comment if you wish, and submit. I would greatly appreciate it.

Let's start with triggers!

Below are I and E frame triggers that are NOS. Any trigger that is used and already been fitted to a gun runs a great risk it won't work in YOUR gun, as the sear has already been altered. You won't know until you actually try it.

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#2 · (Edited)
Below is D frame triggers. They are nickel even though I have blue guns. I could not find any NOS blue ones, so the quality of these ones and the price made me snag them. My guns are shooters, if I need to fit a new trigger I have no problem popping a nickel one in there. It will give it a little pizzazz.

In this case, having the original Colt factory parts bags was a dead ringer on the quality. I still examined them though just in case.

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Below touches on the hammer strut and stirrup. If I didn't get these in a parts lot, I probably wouldn't have pursued them, but since I have them I will 'show and tell'. The strut on the right is NOS I believe, and from an E frame.

This is the only spare hammer I have. I got it for $.99 and considered making the bobbed spur more attractive, and since it is a nickel hammer, fitting it and a nickel trigger to my Detective. I never got around to it. If need be, I can salvage the strut, stirrup, and firing pin if needed.

I have the belief that a properly maintained gun that isn't abused should never need a hammer replaced. That is one reason why I don't have any spare hammers for my DA Colts besides this one project D frame hammer. I wouldn't mind having a Python hammer, but the good condition ones go for well over $100. I can do without, but if I ever find one for the right price I will get it.

However, when looking for a hammer, you want to examine for any major wear just like any other part. If the sides show light wear, that should be ok as you can polish it out. If the sides have heavy gouging, you might want to investigate further. The main area you want to examine on a hammer is the cocking notch. Make sure it is clean and cut perfectly without damage or excessive wear. I have seen quite a few with buggered cocking notches still hitting the $100 mark due to uneducated buyers. You would want to make sure the strut and stirrup are in good condition and not damaged as well. Ask for more pictures if needed when attempting to buy.

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#3 · (Edited)
Next is the I and E frame rebound levers. The E frame is a slightly different design, but should work in an I frame.

Below are the I frame rebounds. Top one is NOS, and the bottom one is used but great condition. The rebound lever is a critical part that is NOT made anymore, and most likely won't be reproduced. Anyone who shoots their Colts on a daily basis, and tinkers, should think of having a spare. Sadly, I just bought the only 2 NOS ones that were for sale at a reasonable price. One person on GB has some NOS ones, but they want $110 a piece because they "think they have something" and want to gouge the prices. I scored my two for a 1/3 of that price just this last week. Still waiting delivery of the second one.

With NOS ones, you will still see machining marks that haven't been polished during fitting. Also, the rebound cams will be perfectly clean with only a front cut, and there will be NO fitting or stoning marks that are left behind from fitting the cam. The cam's top ledge should be clean without any 'grooving' formed by the bolt sliding off the front.

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Below are E frame rebounds. They are for visual reference of the design difference. They should still work in an I frame if fit properly, as they use I frame rebounds for E frame replacement. These ones are used, and will be for sale in a parts lot I plan to list soon.

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#27 ·
Next is the I and E frame rebound levers. The E frame is a slightly different design, but should work in an I frame.

Below are the I frame rebounds. Top one is NOS, and the bottom one is used but great condition. The rebound lever is a critical part that is NOT made anymore, and most likely won't be reproduced. Anyone who shoots their Colts on a daily basis, and tinkers, should think of having a spare. Sadly, I just bought the only 2 NOS ones that were for sale at a reasonable price. One person on GB has some NOS ones, but they want $110 a piece because they "think they have something" and want to gouge the prices. I scored my two for a 1/3 of that price just this last week. Still waiting delivery of the second one.

With NOS ones, you will still see machining marks that haven't been polished during fitting. Also, the rebound cams will be perfectly clean with only a front cut, and there will be NO fitting or stoning marks that are left behind from fitting the cam. The cam's top ledge should be clean without any 'grooving' formed by the bolt sliding off the front.

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Below are E frame rebounds. They are for visual reference of the design difference. They should still work in an I frame if fit properly, as they use I frame rebounds for E frame replacement. These ones are used, and will be for sale in a parts lot I plan to list soon.

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Great info you are sharing.
I managed to get 1 NOS rebound lever quite a few years ago. Still have it and the fitting of such would be great to know. As I think about trying to cut in the front triangle, I figure Id ruin it because I really dont know the process and given that the rebound lever controls everything and everything is interelated, it would be a daunting task especially given how miniscule the tolerances with the bolt tail ,triangle etc etc.
There's no Detailed reference anywhere that i know of to address this but Im still looking.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Here are D frame rebound levers.

I believe them all to be NOS, as the cams and elsewhere show no signs of fitting. However, the bottom one for some reason has been bellowed out at the bottom in what looks like an attempt to contour it to the frame curve. I imagine it would still be ok, as it is the tip that holds it in proper place, not the bottom.

These D frame rebounds don't show the machining marks like the I frame ones do. So examination of the rebound cam will be pertinent is assessing quality. The top ledge of the cam should be clean without any 'grooving' at the end from the bolt sliding off.

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Below are I/E frame bolts.

I acquired most of these in a parts lot, and the rest here and there. They were all well priced so why not. However, they now make reproduction I frame bolts, and are about $25. You can get old ones for much less if you know what to look for though.

I haven't been able to find any D frame bolts in NOS, so I have no spares. I am not aware of them making reproduction ones either, so that is a bummer.

You assess bolts for wear in key areas like everything else.

*The top bolt on the left may be a reproduction. I am not sure, but have gained some more experience with genuine Colt bolts and they are semi fitted on the actuator tip, and repros I have seen look more like the top left bolt actuator tip. So unless this bolt was an old one, it may be repro. In either case, it's still a good part just requires slightly more material removal.

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#5 · (Edited)
Next are I/E/D frame hands.

Again, there are currently new reproduction hands for both the I and D frames. They run about $25. So any easy source for these exists. Original ones can be found cheaper though.

Below are NOS hands. They will usually have very clean edges that show no beveling or fitting, no evidence of polishing anywhere, and usually have machining marks still present. On D frame hands, the edges will be quite sharp still as shown.

In used ones, you want to check for evidence of wear, fitting, or prior 'stretching'. Fitting is usually very clear on the fingers. Wear is usually present above the cam where the rebound point pivots. 'Stretching' will be evident in the recessed area where the thickness will be skinnier than a normal untouched hand. You will probably see evidence of the peen marks too. The hand on the far right appears to have rebound point marks, but that is actually machining marks, as the rebound point doesn't ride that high. You also want to check and make sure the cam is in good condition and the pin is not bent or damaged on used ones.

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Below are all used hands to show what they look like. Even used hands in decent condition could probably be used. They might need stretched a bit, which will then allow the fingers to be re-fitted.

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#6 · (Edited)
Next is ratchets.

I like to stick with the Colt DA era that has the thread on ratchet. Not the one piece ratchet and shaft they started around '76ish. It seems like the older thread on ratchets are easier to find, as I have never seen the newer style for sale.

You almost always would want NOS ratchets because a used one has already been fitted and set for headspace in a particular frame. Your really want to set that yourself for the frame it will be used in. A used one runs the risk of being to short already and unusable.

Ratchets are one of the parts that had different design changes during different eras, like I mentioned in the opening. You will see that the ratchets below look slightly different, but it is just because of a difference in one particular cut. I believe the one is from an earlier E frame and the other an I frame. Either would still work in an I frame/Python or the other way around. Another ratchet design change is in the D frame ratchets. As you will see in the pics, the later 'star' style we are all used to wasn't always like that. I don't know what year they changed to the 'star' style, but my '61 Cobra has a ratchet that looks more like an I frame. Again, either will work in the D frame with proper fitting.

Below is two NOS ratchets. One is probably from an E frame due to the slight difference in cuts. The other is an I frame ratchet, and identical to the ones in my Python. However, somebody dished the two leg ends out like they planned to fit it to an old model that used that style, but they never got around to it because it has never been used. It should still function just fine though due to the cylinder pin holes. The legs just won't be semi flush on those two, no biggy.

On NOS ratchets, they should still be entirely blued or plated. The top of lugs haven't been ground down for headspace, the lug tips have not been 45 degree beveled for hand clearance yet, and they don't show any wear on the lug sides where the hand contacts.

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I don't have any single D frame ratchets to show. I haven't seen any for sale. Instead, I just bought a whole cylinder replacement for about $30. It was in good condition, and was made in the same year with only a few thousand serial numbers off from my DS. I figured that was good to have as a backup. I already checked it for fit, and it doesn't fit my frame window. Which means i got lucky, and will be able to fit this one if needed. If not, I can salvage any and all parts off of it I need.

The pics below are to show the difference between older and newer D frame ratchet designs. With the older style being similar to the E/I frame ratchet, one might get confused between the two. However, a D frame ratchet is smaller and the 'legs' are much thinner and easily recognized.


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#7 · (Edited)
Next is mainsprings.

They are good to have just because, but especially if you tweak yours a bit for better trigger pull. The difference between NOS and used doesn't matter as much with these, and it is most likely hard to tell. Genuine mainsprings will have rounded edges. They will not be perfectly flat. I have owned a spring very similar to factory ones where the edges were perfectly flat, the space between the hooks were much longer, and the the distance in V shape was greater. I don't know if those were some other design from another time, but all I have seen were rounded edges. I sold it because I didn't like it though.

The main thing to examine with springs is whether they have been filed or grinded on, and the extent of that. Look for skinny hooks due to them being filed there. Look for signs of them being excessively bent, having gouges/knicks in them, and cracks. If the spring has been filed slightly or the hook is slightly skinnier from slight filing, it could still be fine. I had to file the spring in my DS because it was hitting the safety linkage pin. The hook ended up a little skinnier but still functions fine and is tough.

Pretty much it is hard to go wrong with a spring unless it has been completely abused or altered. The pics below show the size differences between I/E and D frame springs.

Typo - on the D frame paragraph it should say "this shouldn't affect function"

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Next, safety assembly.

I got these in that parts lot or I wouldn't have sought them out. It is probably hard to go wrong with these too because they really don't get much wear or abuse. Just check that the pins are good and not buggered on the hammer block pieces, and check to make sure the slots are not damaged on the linkage pieces. D frame safety assemblies will be almost the same but smaller scale.


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#8 · (Edited)
Next is firing pins.

The pics show both, the I frame firing pin system (used), and the D frame hammer mounted firing pin (NOS).

On the I frame, really just check to make sure tip isn't damaged or altered shorter, and the body isn't damaged. Pretty straight forward and should be easy to tell. The block should be fine and hard to damage but check it for signs anyway. Make sure the spring isn't mangled.

On the D frame firing pin, you can tell NOS by examining the tip and the rear edge. The tip will show no signs of use and be clean. The back edge will show no signs of stoning/polishing/grinding, as that area is used to adjust the tip position. I imagine a used pin will be fine if not altered too severely on the back edge or the tip damaged.

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The front and rear sights.

This is more informative if you need to buy, rather than picking out NOS as that isn't super important. The picture shows a good representation of actual factory parts. Not sure if the 'white dot' front and rear blades are factory though.

The pic does a good job showing details, but I would like to point out the difference in newer accro sights and the old ones, because certain people like to package the new accros up and sell them as originals.

The old accro sights, as found on the high polish blue guns look like the ones below. They have nice brightly polished sides of the blade housing to match the finish. The edges are perfectly flat on the leaf body. The sight blades were all blue with no white outline. On '69ish and early guns the blade cut-out were half circles.

The newer accros as found on King Cobra/Anacondas do not have the high polished sides, and I don't even think they are blued, actually more of a black finish. Along the leaf body where the one line is pointing, there will be a raised area or crease looking thing, not sure which but it looks like a hump. These have the white outline blade too. The Kensight made accros are like this.

So if you are looking for an authentic accro for you '60/'70s Colt, you want to find one that resembles the ones pictured below, and have the blue blade. Don't fall for the new ones packaged up and sold as genuine originals.

Side Note - '69ish and earlier nickel guns got nickeled rear accros and they all had the half circle cut-out. Once discontinued in '69ish, nickel guns got the same blue accro with square cut-out as every other gun. However, nickel 4" and 2.5" Diamondbacks with the integrated front sight, continued to receive the nickel rear accro sights with a square cut out. I don't know when they stopped that though. I am sure there could be discrepancies to this, but his is what I have determined from research.

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This is purely informative info here. My DS has a rather buggered crane retention screw. I received one of the retention screws below from a MKIII J frame parts lot, and the other from an I frame. They looked the same size as a D frame so I checked. Turns out, the screw is exactly the same between the I and J frames, and just slightly different from the D frame but still usable in the D frame. So pretty much the crane retention screw is universal between the I/J/D frames.

The plunger is the same for both I/J frames. The D frame plunger is the same but shorter. An I/J frame plunger could be used on a D frame if necessary and would just need ground down.

The springs are different from I/J frame to D frame. I am not sure if an I/J frame spring could be cut to fit a D frame, as I didn't compare them.

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This is purely informative too. Just showing what bushings from a Python target stock look like, the differences between target stock and service stock Python screws and D frame service stock screws. Didn't have a D frame service stock bushing for picture.


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#9 · (Edited)
This is my 3rd gen SAA parts stash.

I won't go into detail about finding NOS or whatever because parts can still be purchased from outlets for these. Midway has the best prices on current genuine Colt SAA parts, and Brownells second. The biggest price gouging I have ever seen is from Peacemaker Specialists. If you need older stuff it might be of value using them, but for any 3rd gen you are just grossly overpaying in my opinion.

Even though Midway and Brownells sells current genuine Colt parts, you can still get them cheaper by hunting auction sites. The parts shown below were all found from auction sites, except the trigger/bolt springs and 1 mainspring which I got from Midway for $2.99/TBspring each and $5.99/mainspring. The rest were found at auction, and I would venture to say I have $75 or less in all those parts. They are ALL NOS too.

When checking condition of the parts for the SAA, just use the tips above that I describe for the DA parts. I have not seen any outlet selling new 3rd gen hammers, although they can be found on auction sites but demand close scrutiny. I scored this hammer for $35. I have seen junkers go for much much more. Again, I knew what to look for and could interpret the pictures when others could not.

For the hammer, examine the notches closely, you want NO evidence of wear or degradation. Same with the hammer cam. It should be new without any wear if the hammer is NOS. The sides of the hammer should not have radial marks from rubbing the frame while being cocked. If a firing pin exists like mine, it will be clean with no evidence of striking anything. Usually genuine NOS hammers will go well above $100, so used might be a good option. Just closely check the two most important areas, the notches and the cam.

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#10 · (Edited)
This is purely showing how I keep my parts stored. I organize them together with like things, put them in little zip bags, give a spray of CLP in there for protection, and stash them away in my parts/gunsmithing tool organizer.

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The organizer is only 14" x 9" x 2" and holds ALL of my tools and parts quite nicely. My little peen hammer doesn't fit, or my trigger pull gauge, but everything else does. If I would get more extensive past just action work and stuff, I imagine I would acquire more tools that wouldn't fit, but for now it's perfect.


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#16 ·
Thank you for your efforts in putting this together. A very informative post with great pictures and graphics. I agree that this should be made a sticky.

Tom
Maybe someone should message Mitch and ask him to make this thread, my DIY Python action job #1, and my DIY SAA action job threads stickies.

I think they are ALL very informative, helpful, and rather well done, that should be easily found without having to dig through the archives to find them.

If no one else asks, maybe I will shoot him a message.
 
#13 ·
Very well presented !, and I thank you for doing so.
I do recall you mentioning your parts storage method; and your "smithing-bin". Would very much like to see how yours is organized.

Mine, although very small, would fit the term "haphazard", at best.
The only good thing about my storage method is when I find something I forgot I had, and get the good feeling of the original acquisition.
 
#20 ·
Outstanding thread, and now a sticky! I hope Mitch agrees that the action job threads also should be stickies, this is the stuff that should be on top.

One thing that needs to be stressed is the need for organization and labels, and tackle boxes is the best way to go IMO. I have my stuff organized in a similar way, with one box per frame type. They are getting kinda full, so I keep barrels and cylinders in separate boxes, grips bagged and labeled in a drawer etc. Tackle boxes are cheap and extremely useful, and marking the ends makes it easy to find the right box when they're stacked.

Some people keep everything mixed up, for example in one bag saying "Colt revolvers". They think they will remember what every part is for, but they won't. Those are the bags that you will eventually find on a gun show table, and that's your opportunity to pick them up for pennies on the dollar. Not too long ago, I bought about 2 lbs of mixed Colt small parts for $45, and found about $1,000 worth of parts in it. You just gotta know what you're looking at.
 
#21 ·
Good advice Olle.

I agree that labeling and keeping things separated is the way to go. Mine are separated, but it isn't that important with mine because I don't have all that many different guns. Just I and D frames. I can easily pick out what parts go where. However, if you have lots and lots of guns, or are a true smith, then I imagine you would acquire a lot of stuff and it would pertinent to keep them organized.

UPDATE

Received that 2nd NOS I frame rebound lever. It is just as I suspected it was, even though it was listed as 'used' just like the last one I got. Here is another refresher on the rebound lever, because it is slightly different in certain areas as compared to the other one. Just a difference in manufacturing at the time it was made, so it is good to see that there will be differences even between truly new parts.

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#26 ·
Good advice Olle.

I agree that labeling and keeping things separated is the way to go. Mine are separated, but it isn't that important with mine because I don't have all that many different guns. Just I and D frames. I can easily pick out what parts go where. However, if you have lots and lots of guns, or are a true smith, then I imagine you would acquire a lot of stuff and it would pertinent to keep them organized.

UPDATE

Received that 2nd NOS I frame rebound lever. It is just as I suspected it was, even though it was listed as 'used' just like the last one I got. Here is another refresher on the rebound lever, because it is slightly different in certain areas as compared to the other one. Just a difference in manufacturing at the time it was made, so it is good to see that there will be differences even between truly new parts.

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Great info and pics Thanks for sharing all this
 
#22 · (Edited)
Update

Jack First is reproducing almost all the parts needed for Colt DA revolvers now, however, he has not yet begun rebound levers and it is unclear if he ever will. So when I see an opportunity, I grab them if the price is right. I just scored another 2 NOS I frame rebound levers on ebay and figured I would update this thread.

They were listed on ebay with a BIN price of $45 with $4 shipping, quantity of 2 for sale. Now that price right there is actually reasonable for what they are, but he also had the 'make an offer' function available. The downside was, the seller only pictured one of the rebounds and only had two angles. Only one of those angles gave a shot of the critical areas I taught to inspect above. However, that one shot was enough for me to make a judgement call that they were in fact NOS.

I sent him a message asking him to check the critical areas for wear or filing, and to make sure they were both in the same condition. He replied that they both looked unused and most likely were because he got them from a retired gunsmiths parts stash. Now that doesn't always mean something is NOS because that old gunsmith could just hang on to used parts not wanting to toss them. But based on the picture, the sellers story of where he obtained them, and the seller's inspection of the critical areas, it was enough to confirm NOS for me.

I made him an offer of $50 shipped for both, or $25 a piece. He gladly accepted my offer. I got them today and am very pleased with the product. Two more NOS rebounds to go into my parts stash.

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#24 ·
OK, I'm new with a really stupid question. I have a Colt 1917 and the safety lever looks really worn. I notice in the picture that the lever for the Python looks very similar in shape; will it fit? It is hard to find parts for the 1917 and Numrich is out of the lever for 1917.
 
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