Question to the FFL's here or anybody knowledgeable about the antique firearm class
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  1. #11
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    You need a Curio and Relic license thru the ATF. Easy to get and cheap. I got mine have had many old guns shipped to me directly.

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    Just email the seller and ask if they really require an FFL to Arkansas . I seriously doubt it. They add that wording for those living in restrictive states.




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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by hearsedriver View Post
    Just email the seller and ask if they really require an FFL to Arkansas . I seriously doubt it. They add that wording for those living in restrictive states.
    Just for grins, I may try that---if I find something I really want from one of those dealers. However, most haven't had anything worth the prices they were asking. Also from checking out the other thread on this general subject that Dandak linked, it appears that hardly anybody has had any luck changing the minds of any sellers contacted.

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  5. #14
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    Several years back one of the local shops was going through an ATF inspection, and he had an original Springfield Trapdoor in the back that the agent found wasn't on the books. The owner explained that it was an antique and by regulations didn't have to be on his books. The agent whipped out a copy from the ATF regulations (see, he was ready and had done this before) which actually covered modern copies of antique weapons that fired readily available ammunition. The shop owner simply put it on his books rather than show the agent why he was wrong, but would end up getting cited for some made up infraction in retaliation.
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  6. #15
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    It's also possible that the more prolific GB seller(s) use their "cookie-cutter" ad listings and standard templates, and don't change for an antique (or a C$R).
    The GB listing tools aren't the easiest to use for an inexperienced seller either.

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by hearsedriver View Post
    Just email the seller and ask if they really require an FFL to Arkansas . I seriously doubt it. They add that wording for those living in restrictive states.
    Just thought I would add an update to what I already figured out. I emailed one vendor in Texas and phoned another in Mississippi--both states that share a border with Arkansas. Both responded pretty much the same way--saying that it was standard policy for them on all cartridge firearms.

    Of course since I had called one of them, I could then counter by asking why--when all of the subject trapdoor rifles produced qualify as antiques by the federal law and both stated involved. The guy then tried to tell me that it wasn't an antique, but then quickly added that it made no difference because that's what their lawyers told them to do. I know B.S. when I hear it, but I knew I was up against a brick wall at that point---or at least an employee with the intelligence of a brick wall, so I politely thanked him and ended the call.

    Both of these experiences just confirmed what others have said. Most of these dealers who require shipment to an FFL, do it as a shotgun approach to being safe. Basically they are simply to lazy to try to understand the laws and too full of hubris to admit it. Besides, they mostly deal with new firearms, so antiques get treated the same way. Of course, I'm sure there are a few who have just forgot to change the requirement when listing an antique, but not that many.

    I'm always reminded of one of my favorite quotes from the late great comedian-- George Carlin:

    "Think of how stupid the average person is and realize that half are even stupider than that"

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  8. #17
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    Sounds to me like you have identified a soft spot in the extremely profitable gun selling business. I suggest you get your own FFL license, and bank your profits. Plus, you too can then enjoy working with knowledgeable gun buyers.

  9. #18
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    It's easy to see why a seller would err on the side of caution and require an FFL. Just like the story I recounted, when people who are suppose to be enforcing the law don't even know the law your chances of being falsely charged are quite good.

  10. #19
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    Springfield Arms

    Go here. This is Frasca as in the author of the two volume reference you discuss above. He'll ship non-FFL. More importantly, he only sells solid pieces with honest descriptions. Take a look at what he has and the pictures vs. what some of the GB sellers have.
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  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdog001 View Post
    Springfield Arms

    Go here. This is Frasca as in the author of the two volume reference you discuss above. He'll ship non-FFL. More importantly, he only sells solid pieces with honest descriptions. Take a look at what he has and the pictures vs. what some of the GB sellers have.
    Thanks. However, after discussing those books previously, I found his website earlier in the week and have had it book marked since then. There's a wealth of info there and quite a bit for sale. He has mostly 1884 or later dated rifles for sale presently and only two 1873's (non cadet) However, I am considering one of them. I'm trying to snag an 1873 made prior to 1880 in decent shape with a shootable bore. However, I have found a couple others that are comparable although I would tend to trust Mr. Frasca's evaluation on a trapdoor more than any other for the obvious reason that he co-wrote the book. His photographs of what he is selling are certainly better than just about any others I have come across.

    I also haven't mentioned why I am not looking at carbines. First is the higher price versus condition due to the desirability and second is that I have a nice H & R repro that I took in trade a few years back. Some previous owner went to the trouble of putting an original rear sight on it, which H & R oddly never did. Of course the front is still not authentic, but since it's dove tailed in about all I could do is the reshape the front blade to look more authentic. An added benefit is that it's safe to shoot modern jacketed ammo although the recoil is pretty stiff in a carbine. I'm aware that original carbine ammo was issued with a light powder charge. The McKeever cartridge box is an original that I've had for so long that I probably paid no more than $10 for it.

    I reload and happen to have .45-70 dies, so I should be able to come up with a more suitable load-especially for
    an original.



    Cheers
    Last edited by forward_observer; 04-12-2019 at 11:13 AM.
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