So red flag laws are coming. Let me share my experience
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Thread: So red flag laws are coming. Let me share my experience

  1. #1
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    So red flag laws are coming. Let me share my experience

    Please don't jump in with this is right or wrong and a violation of rights or not. I am just 'splainin' how it works in other countries.

    I have bounced all over the world and have purchased guns in Canada, the NL, Germany, Italy, and of course the USA.

    1984: the US dollar buys about $1.42 canadian. I see a SPAS 12 at the local sporting goods store for $499. It is the same price back home in US $, so this represents a huge deal. I toss the Mossberg 500 Cruiser/Persuader I got for making Eagle Scout in the trunk, drive across the bridge (tell the Can. Border guy I am shooting skeet on my grandma's farm. Ok. Have a nice day). I learned day one it was a piece of crap. the best offer I got for it was $99 Stateside. I trade it towards the SPAS for $200 Can. I have to get canadian permit to purchase, which I do at the local OPP. I get it back and they checked the following OPP, Mersea Township Police, Leamington Police, Michigan State Police, Farmington Hills Police, and a box for "other" was checked and they wrote in "father". they actually called my dad to see if it was ok.

    2001: I buy a handgun in the Hague, NL. This was under the old rules and before I could get a handgun, I had to be a member of a club for 1 year where I shot with a shotgun. Then after another year, I could get another 4 guns, including up to 2 handguns. I had to go through a thorough police check. Even a drunk driving arrest (but not a conviction) would have disqualified. Luckily, I am an excellent drunk driver so I never got pulled over. Since then, the rules have changed to have your personal Dr. certify that you are not being treated for a mental disease where you suffer from schizophrenia or depression with feelings of self harm.

    2005: I buy a gun in Italy. Not as difficult as the NL but Italy had a pre-red flag law that required that anybody living in your home be notified. If you are still living at home, this includes your parents. It also includes co-habitating girl friends. Then there is registration and notification to the Caribinieri but I was exporting the gun. This pre-purchase notification requirement has recently been eliminated.

    2012: Germany: handgun purchases require prior license approval from the shooting meister of your club and then the local licensing authority. Rifles are easier: while you are limited in most instances to 2 handguns (I have 3), non-semi auto rifles are basically unlimited. you send a scan of your license to the seller and he drops it in the mail to you. You have 15 days to then notify the local licensing authority that you got the rifle.

    German law has changed to provide for medical clearance (like the NL), additional written and practical exams, and these are having the effect of dramatically suppressing new shooters. It took one guy at my club 2 years before he could finally bring his guns home.

    In the US, my brother was on the County Gun Board that would review purchase or CPL denials. One guy put on his form that he suffered from "mental illness" because he had been on an anti-depressant for 10 years. The gun board said no problem, just get a Dr. to sign off on your application that your condition does not make you a danger to yourself or others. Guy went to 12 doctors, none of whom would sign it. So no CPL for him.

    In principal, I see the benefit of red flag laws. When I was in the NL, there was a "mass shooting" at a mall in Alphen den Rhine. A licensed shooter with an AK shot up the mall. He had schizophrenia and his parents went to the police to tell them they were crazy to give him a gun license. the police took no action. the Dr. knew the kid was nucking futs but said nothing out of fear of violating the kid's privacy. The shooting could have been prevented if there had been a red flag law that allowed the parents or Dr. to voice their concerns. Interestingly, that same day, there was a mass attack in China where a guy grabbed a butcher knife and a hammer at a mall and went on a rampage and killed as many people as the Dutch shooter.

    The italians dropped the pre-purchase notification to co-habitants because it wasn't working. I don't know if something like that would work in the US for logistical reasons. When I see how the red flag laws have been abused in the US, you see that there would have to be very strong protections in place. NY confiscated the guns of a retired chief of police because 20 years earlier, during a stressful divorce, he voluntarily checked himself in to a facility for stress. That qualified under NY's "confined to mental facility" red flag and his house was raided and his guns taken.

    I am pretty sure some form of red flag law is coming. I would encourage any concerned persons to get involved in the political process and help craft the final product so that it provides very strong constitutional protections so that we don't end up with a product like Kali or NY.

    That is all. Please don't flame this thread and get it locked down.

  2. #2
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    I can see the benefit if 'red flag laws', however, as you point out, 'who' is deciding if one is unfit to own firearms? And is there an appeal process? It would be easy for an anti 2A Dr. to simply deny all cases before him. Family member? Easy for an anti 2A person to claim that 'uncle Joe' is crazy and should have his guns taken. There was a time where all it took to have someone committed to the insane asylum was the testimony of a family member. Easy way to 'get rid' of an unwanted sibling usually for inheritance purposes. So that's my concern. One thing I think that we all can agree on is that society has drastically changed and the morals and decency that we grew up with have eroded.
    MikenAZ and PICARDIE like this.
    'This is King Fisher's Road--Take the other one'

  3. #3
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    In my opinion, Red Flag laws only bring us closer to the leftist manifesto, complete confiscation. They do not want guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens, period.

    The left and progressives are more concerned with protecting criminal aliens "rights" than the people who placed them in office. I, for one, will not support anyone who promotes any anti-gun legislation. ENFORCE the existing laws!
    -Mike

    “I'd like to know why well-educated idiots keep apologizing for lazy and complaining people who think the world owes them a living.”

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