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Inherited engraved SAA .41

37K views 225 replies 53 participants last post by  saintclair 
#1 ·
Hello All!


I have seen prices all over the board on this. Any idea what the going rate for this? Thanks!
Firearm Gun Revolver Trigger Starting pistol

Gun Revolver Firearm Trigger Starting pistol

Revolver Cylinder
 
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#181 ·
Or still yet, this accounting might provide some insight! Charles H. Burritt's Letters are famous because he was a lawyer in town during the Cattle War and he wrote about how the town was doing in the aftermath. He was a well know lawyer in town and was once Mayor of Buffalo.
View attachment CharlesBurritlettergunscan0001.pdf
 
#182 ·
We've wondered how the Buffalo gun ended up in IL. Perhaps this trap will prove out? The Seller's grandmother's name was Mabel and she lived in IL of all places..... And this transaction was between a William H Mather and the Glasses

36933, Quit Clain Deed, Filed for record May 18, 1922 at 9 o'clock P.M.
n
ed
)rth,
i

The Grantors Glenn Glass and Mabel G. Glass, his wife of the City of Galesburk
n the County of Knox and State of Illinois for the consideration of One and no/100
oilers, Convey and Quit-Claim to William H Mather° of the City of Rook Island
ounty of Book Island and State of Illinois all interest in the following described
al Estate, The .outh half of Section Twenty-five (25) in teownship Forty-seven (47)
orth of Range Eighty (80) West of the Sixth Principal Meridian, in the County of Johns
ijtuated in the County of Johnson, in the State of iyoming, hereby releaeing and waivin
11 rights under and by virtue of -the Homestead Exemption Laws of this State.
Dated this 17th day of lia,:eek:h A.D. 1922.
/Budd, sealed and Delivered in Glenn Glass (SEAL)
rosenoe of Mabel G. Glass (SEAL )
 
#183 ·
When I read the attempts to connect this beautiful engraved SAA to some famous people and/or events, it reminds me of a friend who was an SAA collector. He had a notebook full of 'possible' connections to all kinds of people and events to go with every SAA he ever owned. None of his 'histories' ever convinced me to offer him a premium on any gun he ever tried to sell.
 
#184 ·
You are a smart man, saintclair! It s not wise to buy stories, so I am told......"Possible's" don't count in this realm, only realities. Today I am simply showing some of what I've been able to uncover in a little less than two weeks. If one these possibilities is turned into a reality in this situation, it will be due to an abundance of good fortune and a lot of hard work, as the trail has been cold now for too many years. That being said, I will run the traps!

But I have to admit that I didn't buy the Buffalo gun with that in mind...... I bought a FE SAA that has a VERY unique, and possibly one of a kind shipping address during a historic time in the West. If that's all it turns out to be then I am still happy.
 
#185 ·
sumthin_nu said:
...But I have to admit that I didn't buy the Buffalo gun with that in mind...... I bought a FE SAA that has a VERY unique, and possibly one of a kind shipping address during a historic time in the West. If that's all it turns out to be then I am still happy.
One gets what they work for. I agree, the guns was worth the price as a FE and unique shipping destination. Lots of possibilities from that part of the country and time frame. The history, if found, may not add much to the price but it sure adds to the "value" in my mind. Thanks very much for the update and story telling.
 
#189 ·
I almost forgot to mention a very interesting conversation I had with the Librarian in Buffalo. The lady was nice enough to call me back instead of me having to chase her down.... As we began talking I could tell over the phone that she was very excited that I would reach out to her for help. She began to explain what she could remember off of the top of her head in terms of resources in the library relating to this time period. Then she said, "Oh, and I believe we also have a ledger from Munkres and Mather Hardware"........maybe that would help us also, almost as an afterthought!

As you might imagine, my attention level changed at that very moment as I thought to myself, this wild goose chase might actually pay off. She said she would look into where it was and get back to me.....so at least for a day my expectation of a significant discovery increased significantly! She did e-mail me the very next day to CONFIRM the fact that she did indeed have a ledger from Munkres and Mather!!! Once again, my heart was lifted.... then she explained that it only started in 1900!
 
#191 ·
You need to start thinking “who had that kind of money at the time?”.
then start thinking it was a gift. Hmmmm but for whom?
And why would they deserve such a gift?
If you haven’t get a copy of the Banditti of the Plains. It will open your eyes to lots of what could be.
(My local library has a original copy but you have to read it in the building)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banditti_of_the_Plains
 
#192 ·
That is a question that is not lost on me, Bill.. and I'll follow your advice.

Some of the options currently considered are:
-For store protection. Munkres and Mather were doing pretty darn well themselves. If the lynching story holds true, they could have purchased it for themselves or one or the other.
-Mr Smith: I am waiting for the full letter to come in after the librarian returns from vacation. I never got to see the portion of the letter (if there is one) that addresses whether or not the pearl handled, ornamated revolver made it back to the store after he took it.
-A purchase for one of the "cattle barons". In order to avoid a dust up, Munkres told Smith the revolver was not for sale, and that it was already sold to a fellow. Munkres was supposedly "great friends with one of big ranchers, Frank Canton. As he and Mather hauled freight for Robert Foote (see newspaper advertisement) they could have just as easily done the same for, or had relations with the other big ranchers.
-The fellow Munkres told Smith it was for
-A reward/pmt by someone for another person who might have played a role in the lynching/killing of the rustlers
-Heck, and number of other reasons.... While this revolved fits the description of the one in the Burritt story, this one might have come to the store later on.

-For one of the Mason's, possibly someone in the organisation Mather was a charter member of was getting a promotion or was retiring
 
#193 ·
While this revolved fits the description of the one in the Burritt story, this one might have come to the store later on.



I missed that some how . Can you repeat what was written? One thing you can count on...these guns were rare then (as now) and expensive. If you have a description of a pearl handled engraved gun from that area and that time frame I suspect a home run.

Bill's offering of "follow the money" is good. But this gun is past the money mark and into something special for an occasion or as a gift for something special......might have been a birthday, retirement or a killing. Keep on digging!

A back track from the info I saw you posted previous might well offer more info that supposed off hand.
 
#194 ·
I have two instances of "pearl handled" or "pearl handle and ornamented". The first is on Page 252 of The War on Powder River. The 2nd, and tied directly to the Munkres Hardware store is in the letter to the President of the WSGA, the Hon. W.R. Stoll of Cheyenne, Wyoming from Charles H. Burritt, a respected lawyer and onetime Mayor of Buffalo who recounts the story involving the "pearl handle and ornamented and was priced at $27.50" in the display at Munkres and Mather Hardware.

View attachment CharlesBurritlettergunscan0001.pdf
 
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#195 ·
Others can disagee. But I think you have "your pistol" right there. The .41 you have is simply too rare, too unique (any where at the time just as they are now) and likely the only one ever shipped to Buffalo to discount IMO.

I wouldn't stop digging but I think you have your gun right there linked to men and a moment in history.
 
#196 ·
You might very well be right on both counts, Cozmo. Like you said, I can't stop digging yet, or it'll just be another story!

I also think that there is a possibility that if I track the geneology backwards from the deed issued by the folks that lived in IL, I might just way back to where two individuals were located in the same area. I dunno..... just seems like its worth chasing down.
 
#197 · (Edited)
sumthin_nu said:
...I also think that there is a possibility that if I track the geneology backwards from the deed issued by the folks that lived in IL, I might just way back to where two individuals were located in the same area....

Agreed. I did a similar search some time back and found the original document like the letter you just posted offered a host of details I didn't pick up until I had read and reread it many times over. Past that letter I think the IL folks surely need to be tracked down to learn more there. Looks to me you are doing it right.

But I can't emphasize enough just how rare these guns were back in the day. Way, way more rare than they are today. Having a letter describing a similar gun in the same hardware store during the same time period is damn near definitive just for those reasons. In my mind? Solid enough evidence to say THIS is the gun.
 
#198 ·
Thanks, Cozmo! I can say that I did not realize the true rareness during that time frame. I agree though that with there being only 1 known SAA to ship to Buffalo, and the fact that it was ornamented with pearl handle, compounds that rarity even further.

It may be the week after next when I get the full letter.

Another path I am following is completing as much research on George Munkres and Eugene B Mather, including their holdings (ranch/mine/hardware store etc.). It is interesting to learn that Mr Mather was trustworthy enough to be selected or elected, however that process works, as the receiver of funds from the Federal Government on behalf of Johnson County, and was also involved in providing formal construction inspections, on several building still existing today, such as the library and a school.
 
#199 · (Edited)
Henry Smith?

Henry Smith? Too bad the name is so common...but the name of the "Texas Invaders" is well known.
May 19, 1892...we know exactly where Henry Smith and a fancy Pearl handled Colt was if I am readying that letter correctly.

"41 Caliber 4 3/4 with Pearl Grips
Nickel Plated
Factory Engraved
Shipped on April 7, 1892 to Munkres and Mathers in Buffalo Wyoming."

I'd be wanting to know what happened to Mr. Smith.

By your letter the town Marshal, Mitchell, disarmed Smith at least once by my reading, may be twice in a few short minutes while Smith was in possession of that same pearl handled gun. Eventually Smith made it out of town with his guns (again by my reading of the letter) with the pearl handled gun still in tow.

I believe Henry Smith, by his own word admitted bush wacker and killer, was the first "owner" of your pearl handled Colt.


Johnson Co, "Texas Invaders" working for the large cattle holders.
 
#200 ·
Jim.
You owe it to yourself to make it to Buffalo.
It’s a great little western town and I have an good friend with great Colt SAA collection there we can drop in on.
I’m on highway 16...Sweet 16...only 70 miles west...the next town over from Buffalo.

Ill put ya up for a day or three and we can burn some home grown beef and while you are at it I’ll get ya excited about the happenings of the Spring Creek Raid which my shop is named by.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_Creek_raid

Our canyon is awesome. Took this photo tonight.
 

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#201 ·
I took a closer look at the letter from
Charles H. Burritt,
again...

Here is what I got from what you have posted. But the rest of the letter should also be most informative.

My cliff notes translation of what happened in a rather short time frame, Buffalo, May 19 1892.

Marshall Mitchell talks a drunk Henry Smith into a walk and disarms him of two hand guns..one a pearl handed ornate Colt taken (stolen) from the hardware stores moments prior..

Marshall Mitchell gives both of Smith's guns to Johnson Long for safe keeping and sends them both on their way.

Smith gets his guns back from Johnson Long and shoots up the town some before Charlie Taylor shows up and gets both Smith and Long out of town.

2 warrants are issued for Henry Smith from the local court, drunk and disorderly, discharging a firearm, and the 2nd for resisting an officer.

Shortly after that altercation, in the letter the writer talks of a Deputy Marshal (likely a court appointed US Marshal) seeing Henry Smith again in a "outlaw" camp. The rest of that letter should be interesting.

I'd want to see the old court records for the area and see if Henry Smith ever had those warrants served on him or if a warrant for murder was ever issued in Smith's name.

One thing is for sure in my mind, that Colt didn't just disappear. It was simply too valuable to do so. It might have been traded or given to someone else along the way for favors but I'd bet that gun was well known to both sides.
 
#202 ·
My buddy Kurt just published this “Historical Fiction” two months ago. It weaves together the tale of the Johnson Co war and the Spring Creek Raid and sets it with a common character.
Its a neat read. Lots of really good history and interviews.
Ill send you a copy.
 

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#203 · (Edited)
While I await the return of the lady helping me from the Johnson County Library, my copy of "The war on Powder River - The History of an Insurrection" arrived. On Page 252 in Chapter 24, an entry appears that seems to support a part of the story detailed by Charles Burritt in his letter dated May 22, 1892. This entry, however, seems to insinuate the City Marshall disarmed the men with the "pearl handled six-shooter" which took their fancy.

And it specifically references killing "merchants who had sided with the invaders if they refused to hand over some item like a pearl handled six-shooter". This would have been a direct reference to George Munkres, identified in Burritt's letter by name, who was known to have supported the invaders and was a friend to Frank Canton. More later!
Text Yellow Font Textile Paper

These troublemakers we called the Red Sash gang, because they affected the then-popular cowboy style of a red sash around the waist as a badge of membership. The leader was Charles Taylor, and members included Ed Starr, and "Black Henry" Smith, Clayton Cruse, Henry Smith (identified in Burritt's letter as the one who took the SAA from the Munkres store) and Ed Starr, just to name a few.
 
#204 · (Edited)
sumthin_nu said:
...This entry, however, seems to insinuate the City Marshall disarmed the men with the "pearl handled six-shooter" which took their fancy.
A close read of Charles Burritt's letter says the City Marshal did indeed disarm Henry Smith of the Pearl handled gun. But he also says the Marshal gave Smith's gun/guns back to Johnson Long for safe keeping and sends them both on their way.

Interesting as then Smith and Johnson by Burritt's account shoot up the town some before finally leaving. But I'd wonder just how common 41 Colt was then, as now. I suspect he didn't have ammo for the pearl handled/engraved gun but was just shooting his own 6 gun and still carried the pearl handled engraved gun as he left town as a "trophy" for buffaloing the merchant.

No record of the gun past the City Marshal giving Smith's gun/guns back to Johnson Long for safe keeping. No record of the City Marshal keeping the stolen gun and returning it to the merchant. No warrant issued for theft of the gun either. Which would be a distinct point of interest to all I suspect at the time and duly noted. Interesting no info past the return of gun/guns to Johnson Long. One or both? And no record of the pearl handled gun being returned to the merchant. Odd to me.
 
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