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Color Case hardening on Colt SAA's

13K views 62 replies 32 participants last post by  jplower 
#1 · (Edited)
Joe Perkins states on his website: Colt's frames are “color case hardened”, a chemical treatment. USFA and SM revolvers are “bone and charcoal case hardened”, the real deal.
https://classicsingleaction.com/opinion under heading: THE BIG QUESTION

I asume that he means Colt SAA's from the 3rd generation. Can someone say more about it or confirm this statement? I always thought, that all Colt SAA's from all generations have real bone and charcoal case hardening.
 
#30 ·
“He 100% knows that the Colts have real case colors.”

Yea, that would be my assumption as well but after reading the write-up on his website linked by the OP, I’m not so sure. He’s definitely attempting to make some sort of distinction between Colt’s “Color Case Hardening” method and that of USFA/Standard Mfg. I’m honestly not sure what he’s getting at, as all the industry knowledge seems to suggest that this “distinction” is misguided.
 
#36 ·
https://classicsingleaction.com/opinion
"This notch is fragile and could break if the firearm was dropped on the hammer. This could cause the revolver to fire. There are no known incidents of this happening,...."

I believe this was proven wrong in 1874 but I can't find a good historical internet reference other than below...

https://americanhandgunner.com/handg...e-action-army/
"the famous 7th Cavalry received their new Colt .45 revolvers in the summer of 1874 in time to take them along on their expedition to explore the Black Hills of what is now South Dakota. At least one trooper had a stirrup fall and hit the hammer of his new Colt revolver, causing it to discharge. He was fatally wounded in the process."
 
#38 ·
I'm just wondering....despite Brent's, who should know if anyone does, being gentleman enough to respond, how many more times this will come up in the future because "someone heard or read on the internet". Maybe Brent's post should be a sticky! That would save a lot of bandwidth! :)
 
#39 ·
This'll keep coming up so long as 'some guy in a gunshop', or 'the internet said' is discovered by someone who can't or won't do the homework, and decides to seek consensus, or crowdsource the questions burning in their mind - after all, it's easier to ask than do the work on one's own.

'And' it'll come up when someone gets bored and wants to stir things up a bit - just to see who bites...

On the C&WAS forums, it's called 'Cabin Fever', when they're being charitable - an for the same reasons.
 
#41 ·
Just cuz nobody has posted a couple pictures to compare between the two process results.
View attachment 676329
Colt Cowboy / Manufactured 2002
View attachment 676333
Colt Buntline / Manufactured 1981
(Sorry, this photo just a bit blurry but still
shows the difference fairly well.)
Thanks for the pics, now i'm gonna compare my cowboy and my new SAA in person. Cant believe I never did that before.
 
#46 ·
So just to confirm...Current production Colts uses REAL color case hardening? As in, frame goes into a crucible with bone, charcoal, and leather...
Not boiled in a tank with various chemicals to simulate case hardening?

The reason I ask is...Current case hardening just doesn't look all that great. Perhaps it's their subcontractor (which is why Colt ought to be doing it themselves), but what I'm seeing just doesn't look up to Colts standards (or perhaps, my standards).
 
#58 ·
Figured I'd jump in here. In 1999, John Young, plant manager, gave me a complete tour of the plant and every operation, including the color process for both the SA and the Cowboy. I saw the SA process area and recall that it was adjacent to the Cowboy area. Their CC oven was about ten feet across from the quench tank, a long, concrete bathtub-like open tank with running water flowing. Didn't see any apparatus for blowing air into the water. Young explained that as long as the water was flowing there was sufficient oxygen to affect the color positively. Colt's late nineties production was pretty nice in my opinion.

The Cowboy frames, which were pressure castings, (SA were forged) were "colored" in a molten bath of proprietary salts. The color was very similar to that found on Christy Gun Works frames from the fifties and sixties. I don't think it was cyanide as the manager did not have any fume protection nor did he offer me anything. I stood within eight feet of the furnace as they removed several frames from the molten, orange hot salts and quenched them in a tank like the one for the SA. It was an extremely fast process, not more than six or seven minutes between the heating and quenching. The SA CC operation was down at the time for cleaning.

I spent three days there, working in the custom shop on prototypes and offering suggestions of improvement. On a prior visit in 95, my suggestion to Mike Riessig, operations manager, regarding the salability of an SA with a dull finish like the early second gens was taken seriously by Mike, which I believe lead to the introduction of the Cowboy. Too bad he didn't stop with the dull finish! Casting frames and using salt color and other corner cutters didn't develop a desirable Colt IMHO.

JP
 
#62 · (Edited)
While living in CT and shooting in local SASS matches I was privileged to have 2 complete plant tours at Colts Manufacturing, including the historical records section and of course the Colt Custom Shop. I can tell you at one point Colt was not happy with their in-house case color harding process for the SAA, in fact a gentlemen that has since pass on who was a SASS shooter, was able to help me acquire a brace of SAAs in 44 WCF. (1st photo) He had them sent off to Turnbull for CCH, as Colt's CCH process was under review. A few years later the same individual was able to help me acquire a brace of SAA with the acid etched panel "Colt Frontier Six Shooter". The second brace was done in house by Colt, they had learned what had been somehow lost from the original process. Here is a couple of photos of these guns. The ones with the one piece stag grips were CCH by Turnbull and the ones with the black rubber grips were done in-house by Colt.
TB
742374
742375
 
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