Colt Forum banner

To letter or not to letter...that is the question.... Odds game.

2K views 17 replies 14 participants last post by  JNobleDaggett 
#1 ·
Have an 1851 Navy mfg in 1861, in the serial range that Colt can letter. The gun is kind of a beater....finish gone and some dings, but numbers match. It works and times ok. Some replaced screws and the wedge. Grips worn. A repair here and there. In Ohio I would expect this to bring 750$ or so at a gun show. Now, I have lettered both 1st gen SAAs Ive owned, as well as several 1877s. For $100 I figure its worth the chance (nothing interesting in the letters so far). But I wonder...I am sure the historian at Colt can answer this but I wonder how many SAAs or other guns from the 1800s she letters that actually ship somewhere interesting? Maybe 1 out of every 1000? One out of 5000? Better odds than playing the lottery no doubt but still I'd love to know. By interesting I dont mean "It was shipped on my birthday" or "It was shipped to my hometown". I mean somewhere historically interesting or to some historical figure. The reason I ask is that it is $300 to letter this Navy. Wow! Really? The gun is only worth $750. What are the odds it was shipped to...Ft Sumter, or a Fort on the Kansas prairie, or any military post, or a mining company, or some General or Lt or someone like that? I know it wasnt part of a military contract but that didnt stop individual soldiers from obtaining them. Just wondering if I should risk $300. Also, are the 1851 Navy letters like the SAA letters? Ship to and number of guns in shipment listed? Ive never seen a letter from an 1851 Navy.
 
#3 · (Edited)
"I wonder how many SAAs or other guns from the 1800s she letters that actually ship somewhere interesting?"

Define "somewhere interesting". To someone from Chickenville, KS, a gun shipped to a hardware store there is interesting. To some, a common US Military colt shipping location is not interesting. To someone whose ancestor was Lieutenant Gump, shipped to him would be interesting. To someone unrelated - not.

To calculate the odds, simply divide the number of that model made, by the number of "interesting places and people". I'm kidding, but certainly military models will be shipped to a military location. Is that interesting? On the famous people chances, pretty slim. They only received 1 gun, but a base, arsenal, or receiving station received hundreds or thousands.
 
#7 ·
"I wonder how many SAAs or other guns from the 1800s she letters that actually ship somewhere interesting?"

Define "somewhere interesting". To someone from Chickenville, KS, a gun shipped to a hardware store there is interesting. To some, a common US Military colt shipping location is not interesting. To someone whose ancestor was Lieutenant Gump, shipped to him would be interesting. To someone unrelated - not.
I did define it. Quote from my original post:
"By interesting I dont mean "It was shipped on my birthday" or "It was shipped to my hometown". I mean somewhere historically interesting or to some historical figure. "
 
#4 ·
When did Colt stop shipping guns to the south. 1861 may have an interesting letter but for 300 it is a big gamble. Personally I think the prices for their letters are way out of line for the work provided. Colt is much higher then all of the other manufacturers that I know of.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Where it shipped doesn't necessarily equate to where it ended up. I have a Smith and Wesson M&P that lettered as shipped to a store in Salt Lake City, Utah, but ended up in the strong room of the Union Pacific RR in Kansas City, Missouri.

I also had, but sold, an Army Special that lettered shipped to Baldwin Hardware in New Orleans. It was marked, as noted in the letter, "N.O.P.D. No. 53" on the butt.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ei8ht
#9 ·
If it comes back to something other than the military, a police department or commonly known sporting goods company, be sure to research the location a bit more on your end. Mine came back to a rubber supply company, which through research, ended up being a front company name for guns shipped as site security weapons for the atomic weapons program. Pretty cool! Share the info when you get it-
 
#8 · (Edited)
"I mean somewhere historically interesting or to some historical figure."

OK, again, the first depends on the person, like my reply says, some don't find a shipped to "Gov Arsenal, Washington DC" that interesting, when ALL military procurement guns went somewhere like that. But it could have gone to the Navy, or even to a place in the South, early on. Interesting. The second chance that it went to a "historical figure" is to be determined. But most didn't ship to a person, they shipped to a place.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I agree unless it comes back as being shipped to a military post on the frontier, or Comstock Mine, or something like that. That is why i am considering it. When I was working some idiot collected five bucks a week off everybody for lottery tickets. This other idiot (me) complied. So I was dropping 260 a year for over a decade on stupid lottery tickets (I knew if I declined that they would hit that week...just my luck). So in that context $300 for a lottery where the odds are better makes sense. But I know how frustrated I would feel if that $300 comes back with a letter saying it was shipped to Hartley Graham and Co in NY. Big deal. I hate that city anyway. Another way I look at it is all the stupid stuff they put on trucks that I dont want but have to pay for ("chrome package...$600, CD player..$240, Alloy wheels...it goes on and on. All stuff I dont want and dont need). So I am used to blowing money. Just dont know what to do... sure wish they were $100 like for the SAA.
 
#12 ·
It sounds like you want to take the gamble. So good luck, and may it be a good one. The only letters I've bought in many years of being a Colt collector were the past 2 years. One was for a 2" Official Police I wanted to verify it was factory. It was, so that paid off. It also was shipped to "just a gun shop", Bells in Franklin Park, IL.

My next letter is in the mail, for a 1902 Bisley. We shall see.
 
#13 ·
Very rarely have I seen military letters showing anything other than shipped to an intermediate Army supply depot and addressed to the ordnance or transportation officer. They would have been shipped onward in the military supply system. Haven't seen any that say "Capt Kirby York, Fort Apache."

As for the lowly "hardware stores," places like Hartley Graham in NY (gun store) and Simmons Hardware (St. Louis) were major distributors of civilian Colts to parts west...so not insignificant by any means.
 
#14 ·
Even though a letter may not translate to additional value of the firearm, it would still make it a more attractive purchase. If I had a choice between one lettered and another not lettered, but basically the same firearm in model and condition, I would choose the one with the letter.
 
#16 ·
The price is a little more than I expected. BUT...Can we put a price on History? Time goes by..these records may not be around forever. To have that letter forever married with the gun in which it represents will always be meaningful to whoever owns it after we are gone. I say go for it! And let us know how it goes. :eek:
 
#17 · (Edited)
'If' it was a part of a military contract, it will have shipped to a depot 'back East' - and at that shipping dock, with the receiving Officer's signature that it arrived will end Colt's interest and knowledge of the piece.

Small arms were not shipped directly to units, forts or cantonments - that was the job of the Quartermaster - not the factory.

Then, it was Government property - to be issued out to whatever gaining unit needed it, and they didn't issue in serial number order, because they weren't received that way.

They were boxed and shipped buy factory workers who reached into various boxes until they had enough to fill the order.

And guess what? - nobody cared...

'And' the shipping crates were turned back in to be re-used, as they cost money, and believe it or not, they cared bout getting the maximum value from the Government's allocated funds.

Trying to figure out what unit got what borders on the mind-boggling, and we're not even talking about cross-leveling yet - and they did cross-level, from one box to the other, and from unit to unit - again, until they got the number needed for the unit request.

A piece that would likely have gone to the Army of the Potomac could just have easily shipped to Benecia Arsenal, and no one will really know any more than that - much less know why 'that' piece went West, the Army being the curious thing that it was - and still is...

Today- it's all automated and on a computerized Property Book - back then, well, it wasn't even an idea, even in the mind of the most fervid Quartermaster or Ordnance Officer.
 
#18 ·
Dogface6,

That's an excellent description of the process of the US taking delivery of military contract Colt percussion revolvers.

Charles Pate, author of the excellent reference book on the Colt 1860 Army model, has told me that each shipment had a list of the serials in that shipment, and once the guns were received and paid for, that document was tied up with a red ribbon and not opened again to this day. This is the same list Colt has for each shipment, but when Charlie opened one or two (I think they are in Department of the Treasury records, kept as proof of payment for the guns by the US), he found that the serials listed in a standard shipment of a thousand guns had serial numbers over a range of as much as 10,000. In other words, the serials in these large shipments were often far out of sequence when they were shipped by Colt, and who knows what the Army did to mix them up after receiving the shipment.

JNobleDagget
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top