Python 2020
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  1. #1451
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    Of course there are issues... it’s manufacturing. There are ALWAYS issues because people are involved.

    The issue on the barrel crowns is 1 of two things. Either the cutting bit wasn’t changed often enough, or the cooling lube was off for the barrels that were screwed up. Pretty minor.

    The Hickock45 and goldenboy videos - my vote is user error at this point. Because I can intentionally recreate their failure 100% of the time by understanding how the internals work and short stroking the trigger. I think they may have just developed some muscle memory and they rode the trigger, felt the click, thought it was reset. Honest mistake but bad “Failure Mode Analysis” by them... having worked in the manufacturing and repair of various machines for over a decade generally speaking when a mechanical part fails... it fails
    permanently. Electronic components and software create intermittent failure more often than mechanical parts. Intermittent non repeatable cylinder rotation that I can purposely recreate 100% of the time or prevent 100% of the time is called user error.

    I would bet a paycheck they (Colt) are being honest about not being able to recreate the issue. They will have placed the gun in a ransom-rest style vice and a machine will have pulled that trigger non stop for days by now. The difference is the machine will allow the trigger to reset fully... nobody would want to find the issue more than the guys that designed the action. I would bet a paycheck on that.

    The older gentlemen with the cylinder seized had the real issue. Generally this is a “tolerance stack issue”. Meaning when the parts are CNC’d they all come out in a size range. “In spec”. But what happens is if all the parts are in specification on the large side the stack of fully assembled parts may exceed the over-all limit and generate an issue.

    Another unrelated / but related manufacturing story to help prove a point. My Father in law worked in aviation as an FAA compliance officer. They proved that on an unnamed engine manufacturers engine... if all the parts of the turbine were of the “perfect specified size” the engine would seize when it heated up... let that sink in when you board your next flight...

    These things happen gentlemen. They will always happen.

    As for the “we have only received 5 guns”. That may be a true statement as far as he knows. There could be 10 in the mail... another 5 on the colt receiving dock... 30 more waiting for a RMW form. Who knows, who cares????

    Pick your favorite car line... the folks who you think build the best product on the road. Go visit the dealer and drive around back. What do you see??? A bunch of broken vehicles made by that company whom you feel makes the best!

    It’s manufacturing and when you see it from the big picture you will realize ALL of them send crap out the door. ALL of them.

    I only have a sample size of 1 but the pics I post show that when Colt puts a good one together... it really is second to none.

  2. #1452
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    Might be a little of both - user error one time and failure as it continues, because based on what we can see, the issue can be reproduced by doing the wrong thing, but something is amiss with the cylinder not turning. And because of that, it has induced the back and forth debate of failure versus error. Could be that error has to happen for the failure to happen in conjunction with it. Anyway. Either way. Iíve heard things to convince me itís isolated. Iíve seen enough muzzle issues to know thatís not so much.
    Capps, JTom and Samgunslinger like this.
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  3. #1453
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    https://youtu.be/7dO-lQEX49U

    Guys we can debate a lot of things but the hickock failures are not hard to debate if you watch closely. The trigger is full forward and he cocks the hammer and the cylinder doesnít turn. He has 50,000 rounds through a single Model 29 that heís owned for 40 years. To suggest that he canít operate a revolver is silly and adds nothing to the discussion. Itís the equivalent of yelling out your spouse is a communist if you disagree about where to eat.

    In six months we will have a pretty good idea of how the new Python is performing. If you bought one and itís perfect than great, thatís literally what everyone here wants to see. Everyone. All of us. Quit acting like we want this to have failures and suck. People want these new Colts to be perfect because they want it to be a huge success for Colt. If your favorite team loses a big game and you question the coaching it doesnít mean you hate them and want them to lose it means you desperately want them to get it right next time and win.

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  5. #1454
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    Quote Originally Posted by what would you say View Post
    Might be a little of both - user error one time and failure as it continues, because based on what we can see, the issue can be reproduced by doing the wrong thing, but something is amiss with the cylinder not turning. And because of that, it has induced the back and forth debate of failure versus error. Could be that error has to happen for the failure to happen in conjunction with it. Anyway. Either way. I’ve heard things to convince me it’s isolated. I’ve seen enough muzzle issues to know that’s not so much.
    100% agree

    I will attach before and after pics of my muzzle. I will admit I thought it had issues. Until I cleaned it. It honestly looked like is was scuffed but an old toothbrush and gun cleaner fixed that.

    Might have been the combination of hardened polishing cream and powder residue from the test fire. It had like a caked on hardening grime that really made it look like it was damaged.

    That being said some of them are 100% damaged. Mine looked scuffed but I realized it was just hardened residue of some kind when I could scrape it off with my finger nail.

    Before cleaning and shining it
    12F6E5DD-2756-482F-A506-7A619789C057_1579795792533.png

    After cleaning and shining it
    B26123EE-8514-4726-90B7-E1A8C5CE7425_1579795837512.png

  6. #1455
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJD View Post
    https://youtu.be/7dO-lQEX49U

    Guys we can debate a lot of things but the hickock failures are not hard to debate if you watch closely. The trigger is full forward and he cocks the hammer and the cylinder doesn’t turn. He has 50,000 rounds through a single Model 29 that he’s owned for 40 years. To suggest that he can’t operate a revolver is silly and adds nothing to the discussion.

    At 31.37 in the video.

  7. #1456
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    [QUOTE=CrookedRiver;3127739]
    Quote Originally Posted by scstrain View Post

    The python trigger reset has two pronounced clicks at the end of the rest. If you ride the trigger like a semi auto and feel one click and try to fire again you will have the same user error Hickock45 had. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy some of his videos as well but user error is a real thing with all products.

    Yankee Marshall has a great video demonstrating this and he is 100% correct. It’s just what revolvers do.

    Don’t ride the reset
    Don’t ride the reset
    Don’t ride the reset

    The very first video I saw mentioned this:
    Shooting the New Colt Python with Ken Hackathorn. At 12:40 in his video. This was prior to Goldenwebb and Hickok posting a video.
    https://youtu.be/HrLYZruNw_g

  8. #1457
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrookedRiver View Post
    Of course there are issues... it’s manufacturing. There are ALWAYS issues because people are involved.

    The issue on the barrel crowns is 1 of two things. Either the cutting bit wasn’t changed often enough, or the cooling lube was off for the barrels that were screwed up. Pretty minor.

    The Hickock45 and goldenboy videos - my vote is user error at this point. Because I can intentionally recreate their failure 100% of the time by understanding how the internals work and short stroking the trigger. I think they may have just developed some muscle memory and they rode the trigger, felt the click, thought it was reset. Honest mistake but bad “Failure Mode Analysis” by them... having worked in the manufacturing and repair of various machines for over a decade generally speaking when a mechanical part fails... it fails
    permanently. Electronic components and software create intermittent failure more often than mechanical parts. Intermittent non repeatable cylinder rotation that I can purposely recreate 100% of the time or prevent 100% of the time is called user error.

    I would bet a paycheck they (Colt) are being honest about not being able to recreate the issue. They will have placed the gun in a ransom-rest style vice and a machine will have pulled that trigger non stop for days by now. The difference is the machine will allow the trigger to reset fully... nobody would want to find the issue more than the guys that designed the action. I would bet a paycheck on that.

    The older gentlemen with the cylinder seized had the real issue. Generally this is a “tolerance stack issue”. Meaning when the parts are CNC’d they all come out in a size range. “In spec”. But what happens is if all the parts are in specification on the large side the stack of fully assembled parts may exceed the over-all limit and generate an issue.

    Another unrelated / but related manufacturing story to help prove a point. My Father in law worked in aviation as an FAA compliance officer. They proved that on an unnamed engine manufacturers engine... if all the parts of the turbine were of the “perfect specified size” the engine would seize when it heated up... let that sink in when you board your next flight...

    These things happen gentlemen. They will always happen.

    As for the “we have only received 5 guns”. That may be a true statement as far as he knows. There could be 10 in the mail... another 5 on the colt receiving dock... 30 more waiting for a RMW form. Who knows, who cares????

    Pick your favorite car line... the folks who you think build the best product on the road. Go visit the dealer and drive around back. What do you see??? A bunch of broken vehicles made by that company whom you feel makes the best!

    It’s manufacturing and when you see it from the big picture you will realize ALL of them send crap out the door. ALL of them.

    I only have a sample size of 1 but the pics I post show that when Colt puts a good one together... it really is second to none.
    Thank you. This entire post was very informative
    Thirty-Ought 6 likes this.

  9. #1458
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrookedRiver View Post
    Mine looks just like this, 1/2 looks perfect (top of photo which is actually the right side of barrel) versus the bottom that is actually the left side of the barrel that is a little marred up. (Bad picture orientation).
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #1459
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    If you can't see in the Hickock video at 31.37, were he is single action cocking the gun while his finger is not even on the trigger and the hammer is not rotating ................. then all I can say is keep sticking your heads in the sand, or please go get your eyes checked.

  11. #1460
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