Survey of frontier issued Ammo boxes.
Results 1 to 10 of 10
Like Tree26Likes
  • 14 Post By MrRush
  • 3 Post By MrRush
  • 3 Post By Calibre 38
  • 5 Post By hwjhfs
  • 1 Post By jplower

Thread: Survey of frontier issued Ammo boxes.

  1. #1
    Supporting Member
    Supporting Member

    Member #
    2274
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    California
    Posts
    559
    Liked
    1755 times

    Survey of frontier issued Ammo boxes.

    Like most collectors of Indian Wars era martial revolvers I try to collect period issued martial ammo. Over the years I've managed to acquire the following boxes representing the Frankford Arsenal 44 cal and 45 cal boxes issued up until the 45 Colt loadings for the Model 1909 DA.



    The boxes include 44 cal loadings for the U.S. 1860 Army Conversion and the S&W 1st Model American, 45 cal boxes for 1873 through 1880 and 1882 and 2 post 1882 boxes for reloadable cartridges.

    I'm unsure whether or not the collection includes all of the box styles FA issued during this period.

    So please post pictures of any other martial box styles you may have from this period.

  2. #2
    Senior Member

    Member #
    3612
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    3,513
    Liked
    2242 times
    I can't tell from the photo, but do you have a box of the tinned cartridges from the SAW period?

  3. #3
    Supporting Member
    Supporting Member

    Member #
    2274
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    California
    Posts
    559
    Liked
    1755 times
    Yes. I have one open box of tinned cartridges.





    The box is date stamp on the box top is gone but the cartridges are headstamped 9-92. The box is not marked as having tin plated cartridges. The style of the box is the same as the box on the lower right which which is sealed and date stamped 4-20-1887. I have 2 other sealed boxes of this style, one dated 2-5-1891 and the other 11-xx-1891.I beeve this style box is the last Black Powder style box the FA produced until it adopted and issued the Smokeless Powder 20 round 45 Revolver Ball Cartridges for Colt's DA Model of 1909. I think the production of these boxes ceased well before 1898, when the US determined to go for the 38 cal revolver. I haven't seen a later dated Black Powder box but I hope to see one in response to this thread.

    These style boxes and its predecessor 1884 box (The 2nd from the bottom right) are more seldom encountered than the earlier boxes. This makes sense since these reloadable rounds would go first to units in the SAW and in the Philippines, leaving the stock of earlier BP boxes for collectors. In fact, the adequacy of th stores of the reloadable boxes became a concern to the Army in the early 1900's and it directed the FA to produce a SP round to succeed it for use with the Colt SAA's.

    Yes this was Smokeless powder for the SAA and SP rounds were successfully tested in the SAA. Whether these tests were restricted to the Colt updated Artillery SAA's is not clear. The development of this SP ammo was before, and independent of, the trials and adoption of the Model 1909 DA.

    In any event, the adoption of the SP rounds ultimately was combined with the adoption of the Model 1909. However, when adopted the use of this SP ammo was not expressly restricted to the use in the DA Colt. It was only after a year or so that the FA increased the diameter or the SP 45 Ball ammo to prevent its use in the Colt SAA. I do not have one of these early SP boxes but would love to find one.
    Last edited by MrRush; 02-02-2016 at 06:19 AM. Reason: Grammer corection, its past my bed time!
    dkay62, Fortibus55 and Colt-SL like this.

  4. Remove Advertisements
    ColtForum.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Senior Member

    Member #
    8488
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,179
    Liked
    1270 times
    Two early Cap and Ball "Boxes"....................Jim

    hwjhfs, dkay62 and Chaffee like this.
    "I was here and you were not, now you are here and I am not"

  6. #5
    DJC
    DJC is online now
    Senior Member

    Member #
    28128
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    464
    Liked
    620 times
    For the un-informed, what are SP cartridges and why would they eventually be restricted to use in DA revolvers only?

  7. #6
    Senior Member

    Member #
    22744
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,567
    Liked
    3061 times
    Quote Originally Posted by DJC View Post
    For the un-informed, what are SP cartridges and why would they eventually be restricted to use in DA revolvers only?
    BP=Black Powder
    SP=Smokeless Powder

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


    Best Regards,
    Doug
    - (dkay62) NRA Benefactor Member

  8. #7
    DJC
    DJC is online now
    Senior Member

    Member #
    28128
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    464
    Liked
    620 times
    Of course, why did I not think of that? Thank you.

  9. #8
    Senior Member

    Member #
    22744
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,567
    Liked
    3061 times
    Wow, amazing info Mr. Rush. Wonderful cartridge collection too. Being a fan of the SAA and the M1909, I always wondered how the .45 military ammunition evolved with the coming of SP. I figured things were transitional as old BP stocks took some time to deplete. The SAA does not appear to go away overnight and must have required the US and FA to make more ammunition for them in smokeless powder.

    Therefore, SP cartridges were produced with small rims for use in the older artillery SAA's before the introduction of the M1909. I wonder how many artillery SAA's were still in service after the introduction of the .38 caliber M1892 revolver and before the .45 caliber M1909 revolver? There must have been enough for FA to test and produce the small rimmed SP ammo you refer to.
    Last edited by dkay62; 02-02-2016 at 05:48 AM.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


    Best Regards,
    Doug
    - (dkay62) NRA Benefactor Member

  10. #9
    Senior Member

    Member #
    3612
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    3,513
    Liked
    2242 times
    Mr. Rush. Here is my small collection of .45 Frankfort Arsenal ammo (the acp are U.S.C.C.). The boxes are shrink wrapped so didn't photo well. The information I provided was taken from the labels I put on the backs after shrink wrapping them years ago and I think the labels may have covered the manufacture date on the tinned cartridges. I didn't want to unwrap them to look. I have loose cartridges of all of these and more if there is an interest in seeing them. Regards, keith.
    Last edited by hwjhfs; 02-02-2016 at 06:27 AM.

  11. #10
    Senior Member

    Member #
    6040
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Medina Ohio
    Posts
    1,761
    Liked
    2819 times
    You've done a great job on those boxes, and many look sealed. Wonderful artillery as well, champion!

    JP
    MrRush likes this.


 

Home | Forum | Active Topics | What's New

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Wood ammo boxes
    By Mac in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 07-03-2015, 05:47 AM
  2. Anyone else have a weakness for old ammo boxes ????
    By Radicalrod in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: 09-23-2014, 06:03 PM
  3. MTM Ammo boxes from - $1.48
    By apps47inc in forum Gun.Deals
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-10-2014, 11:37 AM
  4. Retoration of old ammo boxes
    By hwjhfs in forum Colt Revolvers
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-21-2013, 02:11 PM
  5. WTS Pistol Ammo Boxes
    By ordway in forum Want to Sell
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-11-2008, 02:33 PM
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
We are not associated with Colt's Manufacturing LLC. We are an enthusiast site comprised of Colt Fans.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3
Copyright © 2020 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.