Always thought the cylinder walls on a Uberti were 10/1000 thicker and the cylinder was 20 thou larger in diameter. Pretty sure Linebaugh used to shoot some pretty stiff loads through his Italian clone.

 

Uberti is 1.670"

Colt is 1.645/1.654"

Length on both with ratchet is 1.78"

 

All European manufactured revolvers are required by C.I.P. to be proofed with loads that exceed standard loads by 30%.

Uberti's Colt reproductions are indeed beefier than their Colt counterparts. In fact, the cylinders are roughly the same diameter, and thus the cylinder walls the same thickness, as those found in the Ruger New Vaquero:

A 1st Generation Colt:



Two recent production Uberti's (2011 and 2014 respectively):





...and a Ruger Flat Top Blackhawk (same frame/cylinder as a New Vaquero):



As you can see by the larger diameter cylinders, the Uberti's aren't really Colt "clones" as their frames and cylinders are somewhat larger than those of the Colt's.

Another thing to consider is this: Uberti has in the past offered their 1873 SA's with 45 Colt and 45 ACP cylinders, and in fact 45 ACP cylinders are still available separately from new revolvers. The Uberti revolver manual states Use ONLY COMMERCIALLY loaded cartridges that have been loaded in accordancewith SAAMI-C.I.P. standards. SAAMI standard pressure for the 45 ACP +P commercial loads is 23,000 psi. So if a Uberti 45 ACP cylinder is OK with 23,000 psi load, why wouldn't their 45 Colt cylinders be OK with like pressure loads?

Brian Pearce of Handloader Magazine addressed this subject in his column to a readers question in the March/April 2017 issue when he stated:

"....Most (Uberti cylinders)manufactured since the late 1990s have tested at 34 and are constructed of quality 4130 series chrome-moly steel.
The Uberti revolver features a more or less .020-inch larger diameter cylinder ( 1.670 inches) than the Colt SAA ( 1.650 inches); however, the distance from the axis of
the cylinder and the center of the bore is the same. This adds significant steel to the outside of the cylinder, as well as over the bolt notch ( effectively doubling that thickness), which is the SAA pattern revolver's weak link. If your Uberti is of late manufacture, it will handle .45 Colt loads that generate similar pressures as .45 ACP factory loads
that are industry rated at 21,000 psi, or 23,000 psi for +P loads...."

I have a couple of Uberti .44 Specials (4 3/4" and 5 1/2") and they have both proven to be quite accurate out to 100 yds. My hunting load uses a bullet that's a 258 gr. Keith style SWC cast from an RCBS 44-250KT mould. I run it 950 +/- fps out of the short revolver and close to 1000 fps out of the long. I've yet to recover a bullet out of a deer of hog.







I could certainly get more velocity out of the bullet, but I'm just now getting comfortable shooting at 75 yds., and at that distance, there's not enough difference in trajectory in 950 fps vs. 1100 fps to worry with, and the largest thing I'm liable to have to shoot is an angry sow with babies, and I'd do good to find one of those that exceeded 200 lbs. One fairly easy way to come by a Uberti .44 Special is to buy a 44-40 and fit a .44 Special cylinder. The worn 4 3/4" above came to me as a .44-40 and I fitted a Special cylinder to it.

My latest gem is a Uberti Frisco I got at a discounted price because some gunshop ninja mishandled it and scored a ring around the cylinder. All I've done to it is clean up the forcing cone with a cutter from Brownell's and replace the trigger/bolt spring with a wire example from Wolff. It is a very well built/fitted revolver and amazingly accurate and sheer joy to shoot!

My favorite plinking/goofing off load is 6.5 grs. of Red Dot or 700-X and a 250 gr. cast bullet for about 850 fps.










I did try one pretty heavy load of AA#7 with a 263 gr. SWC. Velocity was 1045 fps, accuracy was good, but again, I don't really need a load that heavy.



My favorite bullet though is from a copy of an RCBS 45-270 SAA mould. These bullets weigh 290 grs. and 8.5 grs. of Unique yields about 850 fps MV and really good accuracy



Last week I bumped this load up to 9.5 grs. of Unique which yielded 950 fps, if I remember correctly. This load too was very accurate.

So, I'm like you...I have a nice looking Colt 3rd Generation .44 Special, still new in the box, but see no reason to shoot it.

Cholla

 

Great thread..

What do you guys think of the Pietta SAA clones compared to the Uberti?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJxe89Q1gfo

I like the old style firing pin- thinking about this Italian clone.

https://www.cimarron-firearms.com/products/revolvers/single-actions/stainless-frontier.html

 

I can speak about 4 pietta's specifically. The first is a Taylor's model cattle brand. I bought it because it was really cool looking, but I actually thought it was an Uberti at the time. I didn't know it was a Pietta until I took it home. Anyway, that gun is really smooth, coming with a lightened mainspring that looks to me to be identical to the Smith one's I use in my colts. On top of that, the action and trigger were all very smooth. The only downside of this gun is the grip frame screws were both tightened too tight and made of very soft metal. Two of them got mangled trying to get them out. They were nickel screws, and I had to replace them with SS ones from VTI.

The second gun is a great western 2 all blue laser engraved gun. I bought it as a cheaper alternative to a fully engraved colt to stand in as my "Shootist" pistol. That one was just like the cattle brand. Smooth action and trigger. I forgot to mention that both wear pvc white grips. The grips could be better, as they will not fool anyone as ivory. They are way too white. But the size and shape is fantastic. That was the other reason I bought the cattle brand. I have been known to buy a gun just because it feels right in my hand, regardless of make or model.

The third and fourth guns are a buddy's of mine. He ordered up a pair of great western 2's with the standard walnut grips. Both of these guns also have smooth actions, but the triggers are terrible. One is just rough, but the other has a break that is really hard and very heavy. I honestly never felt a trigger quite like that. My thought is that it wouldn't take much at all to fix the trigger (less time than to take the gun apart according to Yahoody), but it was a surprise that it could be that bad. As for accuracy, I don't know about those two, as I haven't shot them. The cattle brand is really accurate. The laser engraved one I haven't had a chance to put on paper yet, but it gets the job done for sass distances.

I hope that helps some.

Well found an issue with my El Patron. Yesterday 3 out of 50 or so rounds of my handloads failed to fire. Primer (WLP) indented but no ignition. Did fire with second effort in Patron. Have never had this issue with my Colts. Also I have tuned my colts with Wolf mainsprings and they cock much easier than the Patron, so issue is not a weak mainspring. That leaves a problem with the new safety feature of Ubertis, the free floating firing pin that supposedly only lock with trigger pull.

Will most likely follow Yahoody's advice and replace the hammer with a Uberti with fixed firing pin. Also sent a email to Uberti for their response. Yahoody mentioned this is not an isolated incident.

Since I carry my SAA on the ranch often in Black Bear country, failure to fire is rude and I won't tolerate it, to paraphrase Capt Call in Lonesome Dove. So for now the Colt goes back into the carry rig.

Thanks to all the above contributions that fleshed out the somewhat primitive research I had done.

For what it's worth, the last box of 1000 WLP I bought, I was getting a 3 percent FTF rate. Literally, exactly 3 out of each tray of 100 would FTF. It didn't matter what gun I used. Just something to take into consideration.

 

I bought a Pietta, a Cimarron Pistolero, a few months ago. When I bought it I didn't realize it was the same size as a Colt. Honestly, I didn't care for it at all as it shot nowhere near as good as my Uberti's. Could've been an instance of one bad apple in the barrel, who knows? For what I would call a base or lower end model, it wasn't all that bad looking though:





I spoke with someone at the Cimarron store in Fredericksburg several months ago. He told me that only their Model P by Uberti retained the original style firing pin, and that eventually, all of Uberti's SA's would have the retracting firing pin. He said the Pietta's, at least for the foreseeable future, would keep the original style firing pin.

I personally prefer either the pivoting block or the standard safety notch.

Cholla

 

Thanks Cholla,

Good info esp about the same size frame as the Colt, if I got one, probably go with a stainless .357

 

Thanks for sharing your tests Cholla.

Here is my thread on my experience with my ne Cimarron Model P 44.

http://www.coltforum.com/forums/cimarron-firearms/336930-plugged-gap-today.html#post2777450

 

I bought a Pietta.....it shot nowhere near as good as my Uberti's….

Well done Cholla! You and Coyotte can shoot. Love the look on the Frisco and even more so how it shoots.

In the last year or so I have bought a few Piettas and a few Ubertis in 44-40 and .45, all 7.5" guns. Much as I wanted to love the Piettas, the Ubertis are a step ahead of them in every way I could see, including shooting. Shooting them indeed! It is why I bought the Italian guns. I wanted some serious shooters.

My take FWIW is that Uberti has in the last 10 years gone to school on what USFA did with their (Uberti) parts, (Uberti's) CNC programing and some seriously skilled labor. I still have one Pietta that is a very good gun after going back for a factory repair. First gun I have ever sent back for a factory warranty...ever. But I also have 4 Ubertis in 44 Special that are as good as any SAA gun I own. Which is saying something when it comes to SAA guns one can shoot and still enjoy with little fanfare or pain in the pocket book.

I like to shoot groups and see just how good the guns are for POI/POI. These are the most recent Uberti, 4 3/4", 44 Special. The only gun of the .44 Special bunch that has needed the front sight cut to get it POI/POA. I have a 5.5" gun that is like a laser beam out of the box...it is really that good! And a 7.5" version that is almost as good as the 5.5". Pretty amazing guns. The last is a 7.5" flat top target. All now have a typical Colt style hammer. All are BP frames excepting the FT Target have V notch sights.

My best 15 yard groups from the first day with the 4 3/4" gun shooting Unique and a 240gr SWC. I've since cut the front sight and now @ 25 yards the POI/POA in right on top of the front blade. Groups are double in size and more spread around but still in a 2" bullseye if I do my part off a sand bag rest. Some pretty good thumb busters coming out of Italy these days.

I I realized in an earlier discussion. Italy was making some decent SAA guns 25 years ago. Cost to the door was $450 or so back then. Now you can get a better Italian gun delivered for $550. 25 years a go a new, signed, master factory C+ engraved Colt was $1800. A box stock Colt $800. All of which makes $550 seem like a steal. Back in the day a USFA Rodeo was hard to get out the door for $550.

​

​

 

Well found an issue with my El Patron. Yesterday 3 out of 50 or so rounds of my handloads failed to fire. Primer (WLP) indented but no ignition. Did fire with second effort in Patron. Have never had this issue with my Colts. Also I have tuned my colts with Wolf mainsprings and they cock much easier than the Patron, so issue is not a weak mainspring. That leaves a problem with the new safety feature of Ubertis, the free floating firing pin that supposedly only lock with trigger pull.

Will most likely follow Yahoody's advice and replace the hammer with a Uberti with fixed firing pin. Also sent a email to Uberti for their response. Yahoody mentioned this is not an isolated incident.

Since I carry my SAA on the ranch often in Black Bear country, failure to fire is rude and I won't tolerate it, to paraphrase Capt Call in Lonesome Dove. So for now the Colt goes back into the carry rig.

Thanks to all the above contributions that fleshed out the somewhat primitive research I had done.

 

Coyyote, bear in mind if yours is indeed the retracting firing pin model, you'll have to replace the hammer AND the trigger. VTI Gun Parts now has a separate schematic for the floating firing pin parts. Uberti 1873 Cattleman Target - VTIGunparts.com Online Store I personally am fond of the hammer with the pivoting "T" block because I think it's probably as close to fool proof as one can get, and it's almost unnoticeable. I have no qualms about carry my SA's loaded with 6 and the hammer pulled back to the safety position, and in fact just came in from working my little bunch of cattle, and of course I was wearing a Uberti the entire time!

Back to the floating firing pin (FFP)... a discerning eye can pretty easily spot revolvers with the FFP by the position of the trigger when the hammer is fully lowered.

Traditional hammer model:



FFP model:



Hopefully Uberti will see the err of their ways and go a different route with their safety initiatives.

Cholla

 

Good shooting Yahoody. I think what amazes me the most about the Italian SA's is the fact that they're built to quite good quality by anyone's standards, shipped 5,000 miles, then as you pointed out, sold for $550.

Cholla

 

I never had a Colt clone, closest I ever came was a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt. Many loading manuals list loads expressly for the Ruger .45 after standard loads. The best load I ever rolled for that Ruger was 9.5gr. of Unique under a Lyman 454424 (now 452424) Keith bullet cast from wheel weights. Plenty of punch and deadly accurate. This load is above standard, yet below what's listed for the Ruger revolvers in modern reloading manuals. Now, stepping in the "way-back" machine to 1953 and paging through the Lyman/Ideal handbook, that same bullet in .45 Colt is listed as max with 10.3gr. of Unique, (arm used in testing not listed, but probably a Colt). So, over the years the max load for the 454424 Keith bullet in .45 Colt has dropped all but 2 full grains with Unique, now being 8.5gr. in newer manuals with the same bullet in standard revolvers. Lyman/Ideal handbook number 39, 1953 and Lyman handbook number 49, 2008, some things have changed over the years.



I get the same great performance out of .44Spl. cases loaded with 9.5gr. Unique under a 250gr. RCBS cast Keith bullet in my S&W 629-3. Yes, it's a .44 Magnum, but I get all the power I need, and accurately with this load in .44Spl. I found this load in an old "Shooting Times" magazine, February, 1994 in an article, "Loads for 4" .44 Magnum Revolvers" and it works, nothing fancy, it just works to fill my needs perfectly.

I wouldn't put undo wear on any gun by feeding it a steady diet of the heaviest loads possible. There are three levels of loads for any gun, Target/Plinking where we use light bullets and small powder charges for recreational shooting, Medium Game/Defense loads where we use an effective load combination, and Heavy Hunting Loads where we use the maximum accurate load for large game, use accordingly and you'll get a much more harmonious outcome from the life of your gun.

 

Hi There,

Now, stepping in the "way-back" machine to 1953 and paging through the Lyman/Ideal handbook, that same bullet in .45 Colt is listed as max with 10.3gr. of Unique, (arm used in testing not listed, but probably a Colt). So, over the years the max load for the 454424 Keith bullet in .45 Colt has dropped all but 2 full grains with Unique, now being 8.5gr. in newer manuals with the same bullet in standard revolvers. Lyman/Ideal handbook number 39, 1953 and Lyman handbook number 49, 2008, some things have changed over the years.

This is a result of the way MAX pressure is measured over
the years. Part of it is technology. Back when, high pressure
was measure using CUP (Copper Units of Pressure). Now,
there are electronic pressure transducers which can track
high pressure spikes that the older CUP system didn't record.

Second, our society has become more litigious and companies
that publish reloading data can be held liable for damage and
injuries incurred by persons who use that data. Therefore,
companies have reduced some of their MAX loading data to
provide a better safety factor to protect themselves from litigation.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb

 

Testing out some of Bryan Reece's bullets this morning. 255 EKs at 25 yards off hand, 4 rounds at a shade over 1 1/2" AND the obligatory fifth round flyer

 

Testing out some of Bryan Reece's bullets this morning. 255 EKs at 25 yards off hand...

Nice shooting there Pard Some really good groups being shot with these guns and heavy loads. I know few of my Colt's will shoot as well as what is being shown on this thread.

I've been using three of the Uberti guns with the T block safety. Not a fan, but then again I like a really, really good trigger and can do my own in a few minutes. Takes longer to get the gun apart and back together than it does to do a trigger job.

Every one of the Uberti guns have come with excellent to perfect timing, really small cylinder gaps (.004 has been the largest) and decent triggers. Not great triggers mind you, but good enough that I have shot them all a bunch before bothering to pull one apart to do a trigger job.

My dealer on the hammers is something like $80. On a $450/ $550 gun that is heady additional investment and purely a ego driven cosmetic upgrade so far. I like it but it aint really worth $80 to me.

Add to the quality and the availability of Uberti, a Bisley, a Flat Top Target or just a SAA in most calibers, 32-20, 38 Special, 357 Mag, 38-40, 44-40, 44 Special, 45acp and 45 Colt. Hard not to find a gun you might like, hard may be, but not impossible

The 3.5", 45 Colt's (Sheriff's and a Ejector version) and a pair of 4 3/4" 32-20s are on my want list now...after I buy a mate to this 4 3/4" 44 Special.

Added plus is VTI (mentioned previous) carries a full range of parts. I like ivory and pearl grips. VTI has "fake" versions of both in finished and unfinished mode. All this makes me think of how Colt operated back @ the turn of the previous Century. As SAA shooters we haven't had it this good in well over 50 years for price and availability.

 

Good to hear some positive comments on Italian replicas. On another forum I hear "experts" knocking these guns so much I was beginning to think that Uberti and Pietta were building rubbish guns especially for the American market!

My first Uberti single action was bought second hand some 30 years ago and had two cylinders - one .44/40 and a .44 magnum, so they were built to take the higher pressures of the magnum cartridge. The frame was a bit larger as I recall. Think it was called a Buckhorn.

Rio

 

I too saw a video with a female narrator stating the Uberti was proof tested 3x normal Sami pressures . Interesting topic.

 

If my memory serves me right the Italian proof house tests with a 30% increase on maximum recommended loads.

Rio

 

So if it’s 30% increase then I’d guess somewhere between 19-20k psi

 

Makes me wonder if 30% got mis-translated into 3X, or 3X got mis-translated into 30%. Big difference either way.

Dave

 

Makes me wonder if 30% got mis-translated into 3X, or 3X got mis-translated into 30%. Big difference either way.

It is 30% over SAMMI Specs for proof loads, not 3x the proof loads..

 

From Cholla's post upthread:
"....Most (Uberti cylinders)manufactured since the late 1990s have tested at 34 and are constructed of quality 4130 series chrome-moly steel.
The Uberti revolver features a more or less .020-inch larger diameter cylinder ( 1.670 inches) than the Colt SAA ( 1.650 inches); however, the distance from the axis of
the cylinder and the center of the bore is the same. This adds significant steel to the outside of the cylinder, as well as over the bolt notch ( effectively doubling that thickness), which is the SAA pattern revolver's weak link. If your Uberti is of late manufacture, it will handle .45 Colt loads that generate similar pressures as .45 ACP factory loads
that are industry rated at 21,000 psi, or 23,000 psi for +P loads...."

So are we talking 30% over the 23,000 which would be 29,900 psi? Linebaugh related to me he thought they would withstand about 30,000 psi

 

So are we talking 30% over the 23,000 which would be 29,900 psi?

Yes, but remember they are called "proof" loads for a reason. If you make any mistakes or have a gun failure you have no margin for error on the up side. a SAA coming apart in your hand is an "interesting" experience that could easily prove fatal.

 

Sounds like 19-21k should be fairly safe?

 

Maybe we need Linebaugh to blow up a few Uberti cylinders to know for sure..

 

Interesting factoid to add to the discussion. Although I am thinking 44 Special is a way way better answer here.

I called Starline wanting to know the pressure 45acp (incorrectly thought it stronger brass than the 45 Colt) was capable of compared to 45 Colt. Their short answer was 45 Colt was stronger than 44 mag brass by a good bit. So brass is not a limiting factor on the 45 Colt which I was "sure" it had to be by comparison to 45+P brass.

The limit to the Colt or Uberti size SAA guns is, as mentioned prior, the steel at the bolt locking slot on the cylinder. Better answer here is the 44 Special.

 

Ahh yahoody sounds like you agree with Elmer Keith, I agree with you. The more meat in that area the better.