Restored Artillery
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    Restored Artillery

    Gun Broker #805882601 restored in 1992 with recut patent dates and US, dull instead of bright blue, CC firing pin. Caveat emptor

    JP

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    Was this one of your restorations? Seller claims never restored. Nice looking.

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    Second artillery I ever did in the early nineties. I didn't know about the Colt bright finish nor did I have the right dies for a US or patent dates. Bill Adair recut them for me but they were pretty obvious
    I sold it at the OGCA as restored to a Michigan man who turned around and sold it as original to someone else within an hour. That guy was running around the show showing it off when he chanced to stop at
    a table of he friend when I passed by. I overheard the conversation and saw the gun, and told the guy to get his money back and why. I had sold it for 1500 and he had bought it for 4500. Good case for many in her
    who have problems with restoration, but also a great case for my point of view, know thy collectible.

    JO
    az_colt, saintclair, Rick and 4 others like this.

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    Dave, You did a great job on that gun!!

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    Glad you brought the truth about this gun to our attention. The seller is a Top 100 seller, and most likely has no clue, same with all the current bidders, and the many people who have owned the gun over the years. This is a problem much larger than most people here realize. I went to a gun show 2 weeks ago where a dealer had 8 SAAs he was selling that he had purchased from an estate. Nice looking guns. Several of my new collector friends were interested in buying them and asked my opinion. Obvious restamping and engraving of markings, wrong twist rifling, wrong style front sights, etc. Some were partial restorations, a few were aged professional restorations. If you think this is an insignificant problem, talk to Kopec. I have discussed this problem with him many times going back 40 years+. It is a shame that the watchwords for our hobby have become "buyer beware".
    STARVATION, Rick, ei8ht and 2 others like this.

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    Being new to the Colt saa game I've focused on second and third gen guns and only ventured into the 1st gens with the help from folks who have decades of experience.

    When I started purchasing SAAs some time ago the advise I received was that they are the most faked gun out there.

    Having collected Sharps rifles for a bit now I thinking Colts may have more guns out there but Sharps are a tough competitor for the percentage of guns messed with.

    They like Colts have been tinkered with for so long that some have the original look to their rebuild.

    Know what you're buying, prepare for a tough lesson ($), be willing to learn.

    Take care, spend wisely my friend.

    Duane.
    I don't know much but at least I know that much.

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    It's advantageous for persons who evaluate and authenticate SA's to be "upset" over the various alterations and "restorations", especially if they are making<br>
    a living at the evaluation process. The more disparaging attitudes against alterations and changes, the more likely people with concerns will send in guns<br>
    for the evaluation, especially if slogans of doubt are incorporated. Kinda like a doctor reminding you to get a flue shot or you might die. I don't fault anyone <br>
    for the process, but it's obvious there is a profit picture going on both sides of the coin, and the collector, if he or she does not bone up, is in the middle. <br>
    <br>
    That said, I've capitalized on many a Colt that someone said was "wrong", including the most noted "experts", that were completely original. In collecting, there are times when<br>
    "it's too good to be true" is not a true statement. Knowledge is power in every business or hobby. If people want to be Colt collectors, each person must decide what to collect, what to budget,<br>
    and decide if they want a quantity of cheap, parts guns or a small collection of correct, original condition guns, or the in between that enjoys both. Most of us<br>
    can't afford for every gun to be perfect, this is not 1970. So the rich collectors will buy the rich, high finish originals, while the rest of us either accept used guns with no <br>
    finish but some sort of "history", or restored guns with a 'Look" of the rich ones. Different strokes for different folks, that's what made the U.S. great. I think<br>
    buyer beware is a caveat in every major purchase of any major product or object, so do the homework and know thy subject.<br><br>In addition, I feel that if I were doing an
    evaluation for profit, I would not charge for a piece that was seriously altered, nor would I write a letter on it.&nbsp; The<br>collector who owns it has already suffered enough
    monetary damage.&nbsp; What procedure those in that business follow is not known to me.&nbsp; Maybe someone could expound on it.<br>
    <br>
    JP
    Last edited by jplower; 03-31-2019 at 01:55 PM.
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    The hardest part of it is that many were rebuilt when there were few knowledgeable collectors out there. They were working guns, and if they wore out you either rebuilt it or replaced it. Most rural folks would have chosen to rebuild as they normally didn't have a lot of spare income for the 'latest and greatest'. Where now we look at a Colt and see what's not original, in the 30's, 40's and even the 50's most just wanted a working Colt, not caring if it actually had any history behind it. Who knows how many were redone at Stembridge or Western Costume Company with no thought at all beyond 'this is what we need now'. Finding an original Colt in it's original configuration and condition is just going to keep getting harder and harder as more and more of them get put into either museums or private collections. The best any of us do is keep watch, warn others when we can, and hope and pray that even we don't get fooled. Thankfully JP was around to warn us of this one, but as we've already seen it's changed hands before with no one the wiser. And more than likely the current seller really has no idea that it was redone at one point. I know JP marks his work, perhaps if all of the professional restorers put a common mark (like Colt's ampersand) under the grip panels to show to the collecting fraternity that the piece has been worked on. Just thinking and rattling on as I sit here drinking coffee, said more than I normally say in a month, so go find a nice Colt.
    Rick, ei8ht and jrm like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pthfndr985 View Post
    The hardest part of it is that many were rebuilt when there were few knowledgeable collectors out there. They were working guns, and if they wore out you either rebuilt it or replaced it. Most rural folks would have chosen to rebuild as they normally didn't have a lot of spare income for the 'latest and greatest'. Where now we look at a Colt and see what's not original, in the 30's, 40's and even the 50's most just wanted a working Colt, not caring if it actually had any history behind it. Who knows how many were redone at Stembridge or Western Costume Company with no thought at all beyond 'this is what we need now'. Finding an original Colt in it's original configuration and condition is just going to keep getting harder and harder as more and more of them get put into either museums or private collections. The best any of us do is keep watch, warn others when we can, and hope and pray that even we don't get fooled. Thankfully JP was around to warn us of this one, but as we've already seen it's changed hands before with no one the wiser. And more than likely the current seller really has no idea that it was redone at one point. I know JP marks his work, perhaps if all of the professional restorers put a common mark (like Colt's ampersand) under the grip panels to show to the collecting fraternity that the piece has been worked on. Just thinking and rattling on as I sit here drinking coffee, said more than I normally say in a month, so go find a nice Colt.
    This was the next point I wanted to make, good post. And, lets not forget the changes made shortly after the colt was sold initially: grips, barrel and caliber swaps, plating, you name it. We must remember the surplus houses of Bannerman's and stoke's Kirk and others who also fixed these guns up. This is why I shy away from trashing restorations and chasing the sacred history since most of it on an altered gun is gone already.

    P
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    Guns in the past were altered for improved functional use or personal preference. Those guns are usually easy to spot. They were modified by a local gunsmith or owner himself, just to work correctly or look a little better. Refinished guns back then were heavily buffed, replaced grips were not fabricated to look like originals, guns were not given facsimile numbers and markings to appear authentic, grips were not stamped with facsimile cartouches, etc. They were not "restored" to give the impression of originality.

    As has been said before, guns that were legitimately altered in the past during their period of use have their own appeal. Cut barrels, bunkhouse engraving, home made grips, blacksmith repairs, etc. are accepted as part of an old guns history and provenance. The modification of old guns during their period of use has no relevance to the discussion of modern restoration.
    Joel6180, ei8ht and lboos like this.


 
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