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Working SAA and Holster 1940

4K views 32 replies 15 participants last post by  victorio1sw 
#1 · (Edited)



Found this photo of a New Mexico Sheriff and his Colt from 1940- shows how a LEO might carry one back in the day. I remember seeing lawmen carrying SA revolvers when I was a kid- I asked my Dad about it and he said "that's the wrong type of gun." Didn't know what he meant at the time. The Gent in the photo seems pretty comfortable with his rig.
 
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#3 · (Edited)
What a great picture. He's wearing the holster exactly like Red Nichols describes the Brill was designed for. On a pants belt under a coat. Looks like a nicely built holster with a very distinct upper welt stitching that could be the big clue as to maker. Looks like the belt loop might be for a wider belt, though. At first I thought the grips were worn hard rubber but looks like smooth wood. Kind of cool to see a LEO carrying a SAA in the 40s. Now to go look through "Holstory" for that holster.
Edit: Looking at "Holstory", Tom Threepersons actual holster has a similar stitching at the top of the welt.
 
#4 · (Edited)
The photo is titled "A Deputy Sheriff in Mongollon New Mexico 1940" found it on Wekipedia.
Thought it was interesting because it was a working rig on a modern era LEO. We know Skeeter carried a SAA when he was a cop for a while and other people in the early part of last century like Frank Hamer. But hard to find photos of them.

I saw a couple of LE people carrying SAR's when I was a kid- if you were a kid you could ask to see a cops side arm sometimes he would take it out of the holster unload it- and show it to you! did that once or twice, imagine that today! lol


 
#28 · (Edited)

Your story reminds me of at least six times that I got to hold and inspect a law officer's Colt:

1. Police officer Chapa rode up on a motorcycle to a stop sign on main street. I said "Mr. Chapa, what is that ivory-gripped Colt SAA you are carrying"? He handed it to me, and I replied "Wow, a four digit U.S. Cavalry gun" and handed it back. He roared off. I was about 14 at the time (1960), and knew his daughter from the 1st grade.
2, 3, and 4. Texas Ranger Walter Russell handed me his Colts at various times. Twice he had Colt SAA's. The last time (he was in a hospital room after minor knee surgery) he handed me a 45 Colt 1911 and said "Look at what your neighbor did to improve my gun". He had the backstrap slightly altered to better fit his small hands.
5. I was coming back from the Texas Valley and stopped at a Falfurrias restaurant. In the lobby I spotted a DPS officer and could not quit looking at his pistol. He said, "You're noticing my Colt"? I said "Yes, a Bisley with a Long Flute Cylinder". He handed it to me, and I told him that "I have never seen a long fluted Bisley before". I have no idea who that DPS officer was. But that is the way we were, in a very different (and far better) America. Respect, Honor, & Trust!
6. At the local shooting range, another DPS officer, this time a well-known (to me) Sargent, was there practicing with his 357 revolver. He saw me shooting an original Colt 1860 Army, and asked "Want to try my gun? It has better sights". I shot a 2" group with 6 shots at 25 yards. He asked, "Who taught you to shoot"? I replied, "My dad, but also by using the advice given by good fellows like you at this range".
 
#5 ·
I am going to have to look for a picture I have somewhere. In 1977 I was flying my citabria from california to wisconsin. Weather forced me down for about three days at Murdo South Dakota. I somehow ended up riding around with the county sheriff "Mac" Mc Donald or something close to that last name. Mac wore a nickle colt SAA .45 with a 4 3/4" barrel. I took a picture of him standing by my plane when I left. He was quite a character. Drove a beat up red Comet with springs sticking up through the seat and had a single barrel 12 gauge! I would guess him in his 60`s at the time.
Mac looked almost like that.
 
#6 ·
Great photo!

While I never saw it I heard my Dad describe a similar gun and lawman from the 30's. Small NM town that had the local Sheriff disappear on more than one occasion. The rough "old man" (wish now I could remember his name) that would always take his place was described by my father as well over 6', and 200+ lbs of muscle and a mean attitude. Either way when the local elected official was unwilling or unable to carry out his duties or flatly just couldn't be found he'd take over LE duties until the next election. As he wasn't white he'd never get elected but he was the real "law" enforcement in the area no matter what color your skin was.

Even before I knew what my Dad described, I envisioned a Hispanic version of the picture posted above.

There is more to the story but it was the "sheriff" that made an impression on me as a kid. My Dad was pushed off a bridge into the river by a group of boys and them trying to drown him after that was done. Dad's mongrel dog protecting him and biting off a finger or two and biting most of the other kids pretty bad. Kids and parents want the dog put down. Sheriff shows up, gets the real story out and boots the pack of kids off and lectures my Dad prior to booting him on his way as well. Tough old bird by all accounts. And as my Dad remembers it he packed a "old Colt six gun".
 
#14 ·
I was at Sears with my dad when I was about 14 and went over to talk to a tall black security guard by the back door. He was in uniform and wore a western buscadero rig with a wood handled SA .38 Special. I think he said it was a Hawes which means it was probably .357 but .38 ammo which was in his belt. I thought he looked pretty cool wearing that cowboy rig.
 
#15 ·
Outside of "Mac" the sheriff that I rode with, I can only recall one other time seeing another lawman wearing a colt saa. That might have been sort of a show thing as I think it was at a big sports show in Green Bay Wi. when I was a kid. I had a uncle who sold a bring back Walther P-38 to someone he knew that was a LEO on some probably small department to carry. We were suppose to carry company guns but one guy I worked with sometimes carried a .44 special nickle s&w that he said his dad carried as a Chicago police department detective.
 
#16 · (Edited)
New Mexico is really a interesting state lived there as a young GI drove a Honda 350 all over the state. skied at the Mescalaro ski resorts, had a adobe type house down town off base with my pards. Trout fish, chase girls in the local bars that played polka music like up in the frozen north but Mexican dance polka music lol! Rodeos, Visit the cliff dwellings, go to Juarez Etc- had fun.

Visited the Billy the Kid historical sites etc but not enough- I did not know enough to see all that I should have. To young and dunder headed.

Housing is still reasonable there, might be a good place to jump to if I can get out of the late great golden state- just worried the borg will change it to California lite- like they did to Colorado.

Really enjoyed that place!
 
#18 ·
This is a query that comes up from time to time. The holster is an A.H. Hardy; an example from McGivern's 1938 book:

Illustration Printmaking


Cap Hardy (rank honorary) was a target/trick shooter early in the 20th century, using rifles. He was also an ammo salesman for Peters :). He originally made his holsters in Denver by 1920 and by 1930 was building them in Beverly Hills where he rubbed shoulders with the likes of Clark Gable. Still an ammo salesman until 1940, he's best known today for Jeff Cooper promoting his own small contribution to Hardy's spring shoulder holster by calling it the Hardy-Cooper -- after Hardy died in 1950 of course. His CA holsters are encountered more often than his CO versions; all of which are largely Heisers (which also was in Denver at that time).
 
#22 ·
Thought that might be mentioned. With or without is a style choice, by the maker. The odd stitching of the welt, under the trigger guard -- that's a 'signature' method of Hardy's. For the Threepersons (which is what both are) that area is stitched uniquely depending on the maker; Lawrence, Myres, Heiser, Hardy, Egland, all makers did it differently. The significance of a Threepersons is the welts inside; which is what leads someone like Hardy to stitch that way.

And the balance of its styling and construction is consistent with the McGivern image. One can tell one maker from another at a distance much less in a large image like these are.
 
#21 ·
I was out in my shed yesterday looking at a box of old leather I have. I have a couple of old belts that are about 4"s too short. I always was up and down in weight and had a couple of those "Ranger type" belts for work. You can have a shoe or saddle repair shop move the extra strap forward or backward when you go up and down in weight but now I dont have enough basic belt left!
My favorite rig was stolen many years ago. It was a Don Hume "River belt and holster". The holster bottom was kicked forward the opposite of most hollywood type single action rigs that have the butt forward at a awkward angle (for me), mine was canted backwards and the barrel kicked forwards. Worked best for the double action 4" revolvers we carried. Overall though for me flat pancakes work the best when I trail ride in our UTV as I dont wear a heavy gunbelt with my regular pants belt anymore.
I usually pack a 3 or 4 inch DA revolvers in the boonies but also have some heavier N frame smiths with 5" barrels and longer. For them I like a extra gunbelt. To me, the hollywood single action holsters with the long drop look ridiculous and look uncomfortable. I would walk out of them in two steps. I have a couple that ride high and tight on my belt for what little I take them. I also need suspenders for sure when I do.
 
#23 ·
Interesting, we just bought a place between Magdalena and Socorro, had supper last night at Datil. It's good country all over. On the way home I stopped in Roswell and found an SAA I'm going back for day after tomorrow. Any information about the location or the LEO where you found the picture ?
 
#26 ·
...I stopped in Roswell and...
I have lived in Roswell twice during my life, once from '58 to '62 and again from '85 to late '87. My wife grew up in Roswell and was on the ski patrol in Ruidoso. There is some really cool history in the area but they seem to be more focused on aliens now (the outer space kind).

I have no desire to go back...she loves it there. Guess there's no accounting for taste. Then again, she has put up with me for 37+ years so she has shown some good taste :cool:
 
#24 ·
I can't make out the details of the holster in this picture, but perhaps it is like the one attached here.

Made for 4-3/4” Colt SAA. End plug at bottom of pouch is stitched in place. The bold oval bordered maker’s stamp reads “E. G. Daubs / Maker / Hot Springs, NM”. This is a quality hand-tooled holster, deeply carved in floral patterns and with stippled background areas. Made with hold-down strap and snap.

Elmer G. Daubs was born in Oklahoma and by 1930 was living in Deming, NM. After establishing a leather shop in Hot Springs, he later moved to Silver City, NM where he continued this trade.

The town name on this holster is obsolete, as Hot Springs , NM in Sierra County was re-named Truth Or Consequences in 1950.
 

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#25 · (Edited)
"On the way home I stopped in Roswell and found an SAA I'm going back for day after tomorrow. Any information about the location or the LEO where you found the picture ?"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mogollon,_New_Mexico





Here is some information on the area from weki via MarkinTexas. No idea who the Lawman is- looks like a interesting fellow for sure. The photo is from Wekipedia- "American Sheriffs" section- just stumbled on it by chance.

https://www.newmexico.org/places-to-go/regions-cities/southwest/mogollon/

New Mexico tourist site info on the area. I really enjoyed living there, pretty sure you will like the state.
 
#27 ·
Thanks MarkInTx and ugly, I really like the area we bought in, it'll be more of a summer place, just cant bring myself to be a permanent resident outside of Texas. I do really enjoy New Mexico and Arizona history and landscape though, lots of Texas ties. Roswell is a little weird these days. The pistol I bought was made in 1894 and found with a pair of similar vintage handcuffs near an old mine shaft entrance west of Silver City, a 40 or 50 mile crow flight from Mogollon, it's a 4&3/4".45. Yes, I bought the story, not the gun lol. I'll study that American sheriffs thing on Wikipedia.
 
#29 · (Edited)
"But that is the way we were, in a very different (and far better) America. Respect, Honor, & Trust!"

Yes Sir, you are right agree. And I have to say- that as a young man- you sure had a lot of knowledge about the greatest revolver ever made!*

I never see kids approche police men anymore nowadays and ask about their equipment and jobs. I guess it does still happen in some places. We used to talk to them any chance we had- probably were pests lol.

3 SAA's on three different lawmen in the 60's that's pretty good, wish we had some more photos!

*Ole Ugly opinion
 
#31 · (Edited)
Thanks for the nice comments. I looked for photos of Walter A. Russell, and so far have found two, plus his 1986 grave makers (uploaded). In the group of three, Russell is on the left. So many times I would see him in San Diego, TX outside of Johnny Dunn's Drugstore. Sometimes with his horse trailer hitched to a vehicle - ready to pursue some deadbeat criminal. I still have his Texas Ranger business card.

There was at least one other S. Texas lawman who sometimes carried a Colt SAA. I have his S&W 44 Spcl Hand Ejector, as given to me about 1970. It was pictured earlier in this Colt Forum. But he had a silver plated 38 Spcl x 5-1/2" Colt SAA with those Mexican Silver Grips. I have no idea where it is today.
 

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#30 ·
I liked Victorio's story a lot. Smart kid in the day. Can't imagine most kids being interested in a Glock these days. Buy them 6 at a time in blister packs at Walmart. See them in every movie. Not much to look at. I don't want to talk to your ugly girl friend :) M4 and MP-5 might get their attention....but then when those come out aint no one likely socialising either.

My partner and I carried 1911s. Almost no one else in the City or county did or could. And very few in our part of the State. We always got a laugh when headed for the sally port with some poor lost soul cuffed up in the back seat would ask, "That a Colt 45 you using?!" Or "that a 1911?!" Felt some pride of ownership.....as they likely had a decent look at ours prior :) Generally that .45" size bore didn't get missed.
 
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