1877 Lightning Repair

2379 Views 47 Replies 12 Participants Last post by Shrek73, 6 mo ago

Barry Myers

Discussion Starter · 10 mo ago

I have a friend's 1877 Lightning for repair. It came to me hollow and I have acquired all of the parts and have learned how to put it back together -as I have found out to get the parts to fit, many times.

My problem is now to get the parts to function together!

Problem 1: It seems that the cylinder stop doesn't return properly. It works freely without the other parts installed. I am hesitant to take any metal from the nose as I hate to buy more parts. It appears to ride up when the trigger stud impacts it, but I am not sure if the nose should be flat along the trigger body or just touch the stud. And it doesn't return when the trigger is returned forward (It doesn't return on its own...)

Problem 2: The sear doesn't move freely and I am not sure what needs stoned or whether I was when I agreed to take this project on...

I haven't put on the hammer spring in play yet, so I am not sure what effect that would have on my existing problems. One more thing, I am not a gunsmith. I have worked on muzzleloaders and other guns, but not double action pistols. Thanks for any advice you wish to share.

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SHOOTER13

· #2 · 10 mo ago

Much Better... Good Luck Barry !!

Reactions: 3

chrometank

· #3 · 10 mo ago

When I got mine it didn't work so I took it apart and realised it was missing a tiny pin from the hand, once I replaced it I put it together and it still didn't work, so I took it apart and put it back together 5 more times, the last time everything just worked !
Complicated bit of machinery ! Cheers

Sent from my SM-G996B using Tapatalk

Reactions: 2

MarkInTx

· #4 · 10 mo ago

I can imagine by now...1877's can make "complicated" seem pretty simple. The parts and springs interact with each other slightly differently depending on SA or DA function. I'm like chrometank and have taken one apart and put it back together several times until it just worked.

There are a few guys on here who have an amazing working knowledge of how these things function. Hopefully they will chime in soon. Be prepared with pictures and details of what you have and haven't done.

Good luck!

Reactions: 1

victorio1sw

· #5 · 10 mo ago

Barry Myers said:
I have a friend's 1877 Lightning for repair. It came to me hollow and I have acquired all of the parts and have learned how to put it back together -as I have found out to get the parts to fit, many times.

My problem is now to get the parts to function together!

Problem 1: It seems that the cylinder stop doesn't return properly. It works freely without the other parts installed. I am hesitant to take any metal from the nose as I hate to buy more parts. It appears to ride up when the trigger stud impacts it, but I am not sure if the nose should be flat along the trigger body or just touch the stud. And it doesn't return when the trigger is returned forward (It doesn't return on its own...)

Problem 2: The sear doesn't move freely and I am not sure what needs stoned or whether I was when I agreed to take this project on...

I haven't put on the hammer spring in play yet, so I am not sure what effect that would have on my existing problems. One more thing, I am not a gunsmith. I have worked on muzzleloaders and other guns, but not double action pistols. Thanks for any advice you wish to share.

It is hard to say where to start, not seeing the gun, and playing with it to learn what works. That is likely why relies have been slow to come. As for the lock bolt, these often cannot be adjusted much without a heat treat oven (avoiding breakage). The nose should be almost flush with the trigger stud. It cams upward as the trigger is pulled back. The lock bolt should clear the cylinder before the hand moves that cylinder. Then after the hammer reaches the half cock position, the nose falls off of that stud, and the lock bolt is dragging on the rear of the cylinder.

The sear is camed downward by the trigger, as the trigger reaches the rearmost position. This disengages the sear from the fully cocked hammer. At the same time, or just before, the trigger strut has jumped out of its hammer slot.

This is a start......in answering your questions.

Reactions: 1

victorio1sw

· #6 · 10 mo ago

Barry Myers said:
I have a friend's 1877 Lightning for repair. It came to me hollow and I have acquired all of the parts and have learned how to put it back together -as I have found out to get the parts to fit, many times.

My problem is now to get the parts to function together!

Problem 1: It seems that the cylinder stop doesn't return properly. It works freely without the other parts installed. I am hesitant to take any metal from the nose as I hate to buy more parts. It appears to ride up when the trigger stud impacts it, but I am not sure if the nose should be flat along the trigger body or just touch the stud. And it doesn't return when the trigger is returned forward (It doesn't return on its own...)

Problem 2: The sear doesn't move freely and I am not sure what needs stoned or whether I was when I agreed to take this project on...

I haven't put on the hammer spring in play yet, so I am not sure what effect that would have on my existing problems. One more thing, I am not a gunsmith. I have worked on muzzleloaders and other guns, but not double action pistols. Thanks for any advice you wish to share.

Two good sources of 3-D moving parts interaction:

On youtube is CandRsenal.

poudreverte, who is sometimes on this forum, also built something like a 3-D Autocad moving picture of these parts. Watching these may answer some of your questions.

Reactions: 4

Agarbers

· #7 · 10 mo ago

Send it to Sal Lanara.

Reactions: 3

MarkInTx

· #8 · 10 mo ago

Agarbers said:
Send it to Sal Lanara.

⬆ ⬆ ⬆ Also a viable option.

Reactions: 1

Hopalong

· #9 · 10 mo ago

Agarbers said:
Send it to Sal Lanara.

I agree.

Reactions: 2

Shrek73

· #10 · 10 mo ago

Probably the most important step in rebuilding a 1877 is using quality reproduction parts. I have never had any luck with Dixie Gun Work parts, they require way to much fitting and heat treatment and the springs aren't very good. There are quality parts out, but they are a little more expensive, but make your rebuild much more easier since they don't require the heat treatment.

Fitting the cylinder stop takes time, what shape is the trigger stud in?

Wisner's sells the cylinder stop and some small parts.

Colt 1877 / Lightning | Wisner's Inc

Jack First has a good sear.

Colt 1877 Double Action Lightning .38 and Thunder .41 revolver

jackfirstinc.com

jackfirstinc.com

And Poppets has the best springs.

Colt Lightning 1877 Archives - Poppert's Gun Parts

poppertsgunparts.com

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Barry Myers

Discussion Starter · #11 · 10 mo ago

victorio1sw said:
Two good sources of 3-D moving parts interaction:

On youtube is CandRsenal.

poudreverte, who is sometimes on this forum, also built something like a 3-D Autocad moving picture of these parts. Watching these may answer some of your questions.

Thank you for the video. The animation was most helpful. when I can get back to the pistol, I may have to restructure the cylinder stop nose. Someone says below that he stayed away from Dixie gun parts. That is where some of mine came from. I have hardened and tempered the cylinder stop a couple of times - I am a blacksmith and that is what I do! Anyway, I may have to get some of the parts again if I can't get these to work. I think my friend wants to sell the pistol if I can get it to function and it will be more valuable if it works as someone else said. I hope poudreverte does supply has pictures.

Reactions: 2

Barry Myers

Discussion Starter · #12 · 10 mo ago

Shrek73 said:
Probably the most important step in rebuilding a 1877 is using quality reproduction parts. I have never had any luck with Dixie Gun Work parts, they require way to much fitting and heat treatment and the springs aren't very good. There are quality parts out, but they are a little more expensive, but make your rebuild much more easier since they don't require the heat treatment.

Fitting the cylinder stop takes time, what shape is the trigger stud in?

Wisner's sells the cylinder stop and some small parts.

Colt 1877 / Lightning | Wisner's Inc

Jack First has a good sear.

Colt 1877 Double Action Lightning .38 and Thunder .41 revolver

jackfirstinc.com

And Poppets has the best springs.

Colt Lightning 1877 Archives - Poppert's Gun Parts

poppertsgunparts.com

Thanks for the advice. As I said to Victorio, I did get the cylinder stop and the sear from Dixie. I may have to go elsewhere if I can't get it to function. I let you know. Thanks again.

Reactions: 1

victorio1sw

· #13 · 10 mo ago

Barry Myers said:
Thanks for the advice. As I said to Victorio, I did get the cylinder stop and the sear from Dixie. I may have to go elsewhere if I can't get it to function. I let you know. Thanks again.

Barry, I once bought a Dixie bolt, but it had way too many problems to fix. That is a critical part, so you may want to ckeck out the Wisners product, as suggested by Shrek.

Reactions: 1

ColtsDad

· #14 · 10 mo ago

I think you tell your friend you have too much time and aggravation invested .
Then tell him you are buying it - for the evenly equal sum of four bills.

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Barry Myers

Discussion Starter · #15 · 10 mo ago

I haven't bought any new parts yet. I am trying to figure out what I should do to the ones I have first. If that doesn't work, then it will be on to find some more.

I think I have found one of my problems. I have left the sear nose square. After studying the picture below, I see that it should be slanted off so that it will slip below the trigger stud. I will slope it to match the picture and see how that works.
I have yet to see why the cylinder stop, while functioning easily when the spring and sear are not installed, it doesn't seem to want to move when they are. Still working...

Gesture Line Auto part Automotive exterior Automotive design

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Shrek73

· #16 · 10 mo ago

You need to be careful with removing metal from the sear arm. If you remove too much metal, the stud will not reach the sear arm and release properly. Which sear are you using?

Reactions: 1

Barry Myers

Discussion Starter · #17 · 10 mo ago

I am using one from Dixie. The nose is square and butts up against the stud. I think that if I modify it as in the picture, it will function as intended. I haven't done anything to it other than try it with neither the trigger or sear/cylinder stop spring not installed. It fits into the hammer stop notches solidly and with a click.
Thanks for the caution. I'll post how it works out.

Shrek73

· #18 · 10 mo ago

You need to heat treat the Dixie sear once you have it fitted. The edge which contacts the hammer will not hold up without it being hardened.

Reactions: 1

Barry Myers

Discussion Starter · #19 · 10 mo ago

Yes, I had planned to. I have heat treated the cylinder stop a couple of times when I thought it was close. I will do both as they are just castings when I received them. I tried to get away as cheaply as I could for my friend, but it may (definitely would have) been easier had I bought finished parts from other vendors.

Reactions: 1

Barry Myers

Discussion Starter · #20 · 10 mo ago

2

The nose of the sear seems to have gone well. I am still having interference with the sear and cylinder stop as the spring does not return them to the intended position. The first pic is the trigger forward and the second is with the trigger pulled to the rear. Where/how should I look for interference?

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