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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just got a phone call from a friend with a question that I can't answer. Someone in his little town has a military Colt 45 that his father brought home from "The War" and gave it to him about 50 years ago. He offered to sell it to him for $1000. My friend doesn't know the SN, and doesn't know if it is a 1911 or a 1911A1. He did say it is blue, NOT Parkerized. He is an advanced S&W collector, so I believe him when he says it is 95% and not reblued. When he said that, I said "Buy it". But then he added that the serial number is on the side, as it should be, and the same number is also on the butt, behind the magazine well. How can that be?
 

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It's built by FMAP.

Sistema Colts were manufactured in accordance with Colt's 1927 drawings.

They were identical to US military M1911-A1 pistols except for 6 minor cosmetic differences, and parts were interchangeable.

The differences were:

a) the markings
b) the grips
c) a black oxide bluing
d) a sharp edge on the rear of the hammer
e) a sharp edge on the heel of the grip safety
f) indented checkering on the mainspring housing

The pistols were made for the Argentine Army, Navy, Air Force, government bureaus, police, commercial sales, and export.

They were normally serial numbered:

a) on the right side of the receiver
b) on the grip frame under the mainspring housing
c) on the top and right side of the slide
d) on the top of the chamber
e) the bottom of the magazine.

Maybe ol' Dad's 'war' was the Falkland Islands...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Not to be a wise a$$ but this is right up there with "I have a 1953 Chevy with snow tires on the front wheels. How many jelly beans can the trunk hold? Oh, did I mention it is two tone green?" Come on Colt .22 ,if you want these good folks to give you good info, you got to give them good info to work with. JM not so HO. Nick
I know that, but it's all I have. I know very little about 1911/1911A1, but was hoping some of them might have had the SN on the butt, and that someone here would know about it. I already checked Clawson's big book, Joe Poyer's new book, and Karl Karesch's CD. Next move was to ask the experts.

In my Not So Humble Opinion, your response could serve as a perfect example of a wise a$$ remark.
 

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Yeahhh...sounds like a 'HAFDASA' Frame/Receiver ( with the Serial Number stamped on to the integral Mainspring Housing ) and, a 'SISTEMA' or Gov't Model Slide, mounted to it.

Of course, some decent images would surely help!!


Otherwise, the ( same ) Serial Number being on the Slide and on the Butt, makes no sense for any m1911-esque platform I know of.


The various Argentine .45 ACP Pistols typically had Inventory Numbers on Frame, Slide and Barrel. These did not co-respond with the Pistol's Serial Number, whether it were a Colt Government Model, Sistema Colt, DGFM-FMAP, or HAFDASA.

The 'HAFDASA' ( or 'Ballester Rigaud' or 'Ballester Molina' ) Pistols, had their Serial Number, as such, on their integral Main Spring Housing's side, and, no where else.
 

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Would your friend volunteer the serial number which would determine if it is a Model 1911 or 1911A1, but won't answer the question as to why the serial number is on the butt. The serial number was not on the butt when it left the manufacturer, so it would be considered as altered from it's original configuration.
 

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After I posted the Ballister Molina comment it had accured to me the the Star pistols do in fact have the serial number on the butt of the pistol behind the mag well.

I'm certainly no expert on these pistols but do not recall any USGI issue ones with serial numbers on the parts, but the Spanish and South Americans had numbers on all of the major parts.

The Ballister slide and the Colt type slide will not interchange (I tried it when I had my Ballister Molina), but the barrel and bushings are the same. While these pistols the Star & Ballister Molina and the Colt type are different guns some persons do not realize this and assume that if it looks like a Colt 45 Automatic it must be one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
colt22dotcom.Going back and rereading my post I think I'm inclined to agree. Please accept my most humble apology. Sometimes my alligator mouth overloads my Peter cotton Tail behind. Nick
Thanks Nick. Apology accepted.
P.S. Check your private mail. It seems we have a lot in common.
 
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