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1918 Police Positive Special (32-20) Blowing out the side

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534 views 21 replies 15 participants last post by  BrianOrion  
#1 ·
I'm new to revolvers and I inherited this piece. I found ammo at a gun show but when I fire this Colt I see flames shooting out the sides. The trajectory and accuracy seems very bad. Looking at the barrel to cylinder gap, I can slip a .011" feeler gauge in there easily but the .012" only partway, so maybe .0115" gap. Is this excessive for these old guns? Is there a shim or some other way to reduce this gap? Thanks! Brian

If it matters, this gun was used by a cop in the '20s and '30s and has been used heavily.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Those numbers are a little big but I don't think its crazy. I believe colt aimed for .008".

You also have to remember the 32-20 was a firecracker of a round. Some call it the first magnum. There's been a joke forever that the reason so many guns in 32-20 have cracked grips is because upon firing, the shooter would drop the gun and grab his ears in pain.
 
#4 ·
Thanks NotSoPolicePositive and COKid. I bought these rounds from a re-loader who had plastic bags of various types of product on his table so maybe they aren't quite up to snuff but the idea that I got on firing these is that I'd be in big trouble in a gun fight and might do better with a good slingshot. Plus the large flames out the side set me to thinking. That was all 20 years ago and the thing is still sitting here so I thought I'd either fix it or sell it.
I got a number of other guns from the estate including a 1928 Savage Model 99 .300 lever action, and a Winchester 25-35 from the teens. Getting ammo for any of these is not exactly a trip to Walmart so I may offload the lot.
Yes, there is a piece of one of the rubber grips missing but I just imagined that the officer had to pistol-whip some hard-headed perp to subdue him. I also have his old billy club which unbelievably is against the law to possess here in this state (guess which).
I'll see if I can get some pictures up.
 

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#21 ·
Bonking miscreants on the head with a handgun was once an approved practice. In the old west it was called "buffalo-ing".
Fun fact: The heavy barreled S&W M-10 came about because the original pencil barrel was susceptible to misalignment when being attacked by craniums.
 
#5 ·
.003-.008 was acceptable and usually set about .005 from the factory. Your police positive special may also have excessive endshake ( does the cylinder move for and aft in the frame?) which would lead to extra cylinder gap upon firing. Now days high speed rifle only ammo for 32-20 hasn’t been made in about 60 years but there is a chance back then some of that rifle only ammo might have made it into the gun. While it might not have blown up the gun, no doubt it would contribute to a loose gun sooner than handgun ammo.
If it were mine, I wouldn’t pay the high price to a gunsmith to have it corrected. I would handload it with a bullet/powder combination that made the least cylinder flame or one you found acceptable. Under bright sunlight, cylinder flame and muzzle flash is muted. When it gets close to evening, that’s when the flame even from normal guns and ammo gets seen.
 
#7 ·
I think the spacing on the cylinder and forcing cone are fine.

I'd stop shooting the reloaded ammo. There are commercial loads, meant for handguns, available. 32-20 is uncommon, but not impossible to get if you don't mind mailing away for it (I shoot .41, which on the other hand, is nearly impossible to get). Mystery ammo - "Reloaded bags on a table at a gun show" are how several people in the past have blown forcing cones on their old wheel guns.

32-20 use by law enforcement was pretty rare, I only know a few that did - the big one was the Treasury Department Beverage Tax Division, but that was in the 1930s with Official Polices.
 
#10 ·
You also said these were reloads from a reloader that had various bags reloaded. Possibly they were loaded hot. I personally will not shoot another loaders reloads. It just scares me personally FWIW.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Wow, I guess I came to the right forum. Thanks for all the info. Didn't know about the different loads. Yes, the cylinder has play fore and aft. I've decided to just keep as a conversation piece or just to "have", I don't feel like shooting it any more.
For future reference, what is a good way to sell firearms these days? If it matters, I am in L.A., Calif.
I have maybe 8 extra including shotguns of various gauges that I never use. Thanks, Brian

Oh, I looked it up and the L.A.P.D. didn't issue a standard sidearm until after WWII. Before that it was carry what you have (according to Athlon Outdoors).

Also I found this article in "Guns" Magazine that says "As the 20th Century began, the older .32 caliber revolvers which had been standard-issue for the majority of American police departments began to be phased out in favor of the larger-bore .38 caliber". This revolver is from 1918. I've actually read that the 32-20 is about the same as a 38 special. Maybe I'll pick up a 38. Ammo sure would be easier to find and afford.
 

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#15 ·
I think it's fine to shoot (it's not a museum piece). I shoot 100+ year old pistols all the time. Like I said, just get commercial load for it. 32-20 limped along a bit into the 1930s, in some places as a guard caliber (like those to the Treasury Department), but really didnt last past ww2.

LAPD's first standard pistol was the Smith & Wesson M&P, though the pistol target team used .45 Auto Colt New Services.
 
#16 ·
I like the .32-20. Yes, it is largely a reloader's cartridge these days but it is capable of fine accuracy. Sounds like your gun has had some hard use and might not be a candidate for regular use. If the timing and lock up are acceptable it should be fine for the occasional plinking session.
 
#17 ·
Ammo is easily found for under $50 a box of 50 rounds. That's cheap in my opinion .
People waste more money than that every week.

So back to revolver , yes .011 is high but shouldn't be any problem . What is a problem is if cylinders do not align and lock properly .
That's first thing to check , timing, alignment, gap.

If it had good bore and chambers the barrel can be set back and gap adjusted correctly and new forcing cone cut. Have action checked and tuned =Excellent shooter .

Never ever shoot someone else's gunshow reload . Especially some individual .

Frank Glenn if willing before he completly retires can probably make it perfect. It's got a nice patina and worthy of a little TLC.
 
#19 ·
I said to not shoot it any more not because of the caliber, I shoot several .32-20 guns and many more that are even harder to get ammo for. Not because of the age, I shoot mostly old guns, almost all are from 60 to 140 years old.
I said put it away because of it's condition. It's rusty and pitted, you say there is too much cylinder gap, and I see buggered screws, you say it has a broken grip. All that adds up to a poorly cared for gun before you got it. It could have had hot rounds shot through it, it probably has a rusty bore, poor timing etc. AND - this is the big one - it's not a valuable gun even in mint condition, nor are they a good size for shooting. They're small pocket guns basically, what was turned into the Detective Special. I'd get a larger, midsized Colt to shoot, like an Army Special or Official Police in .38 Special.
 
#20 ·
If you're not in love with it, personally I'd sell it to someone who has the love and knowledge as a hobby to reload for it and fix it up. As one member said, it's not worth it to have a gunsmith fool with it, then ammo is your next problem.
Lots of nice old 38 specials out there, not too expensive and ammo is readily available.
 
#22 · (Edited)
I think I'll just hang onto it for now until I find a nice replacement. I have no idea how to sell a firearm in Calif. I sold two very old double-barreled shotguns that I acquired with this little collection at a "garage sale" for $40 for both (2004). I see that there are sites such as "proxibid" that might be the ticket.
For sure though I will be looking at Colts as I like the brand plus I will have this excellent forum for support.
Thanks everyone for the input which I will re-read and use as needed. -BA
 

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