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,38 acp ammo

5K views 31 replies 10 participants last post by  usmc69 
#1 ·
What are folks using for loads for their .38 ACP handguns? I did some research in some old loading manuals and founds some data in them. I decided to try 2.8 Grains of Bullseye with a 125 Grain FMJ bullet. Will try them out on Friday.
 
#2 ·
That might not be enough to cycle the action. From Lee #2 for 38 ACP

For 130 gr. Jacketed OAL = 1.260

W231 4.4 gr, 875 fps, 20,000 CUP
Green Dot 4.2 gr, 910 fps, 19,000 CUP
Red Dot 4.0 gr, 910 fps, 19,400 CUP
Bullseye 4.0 gr, 935 fps, 18,100 CUP
Herco 5.3 gr, 945 fps, 19,600 CUP
Unique 5.3 gr, 945 fps, 18,800 CUP

OAL = 1.300
Acc #2 4.0-4.5 gr, 995 fps, 23,000 CPU

As always, start low and work up. And loading lighter bullets with data from the next size heavier is accepted practice.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Last few Days I got back in to Casting and cast up a bunch of the old "IDEAL" 356 472 Bullets, which in my instance weigh 142 Grains with pure Lead...and drop from the Mould right at .360, so I wil size them down to .357 for the old Auto-Colt.

These - or their slightly shorter version - so far as I have gathered, were intended for Paper Target use with the 9 mm Luger and the early Colt 38 Automatics ( hence the 'nose' for feeding properly ) but would do fine in .38 Special also of course, or likely do well in .38 S & W too.

I'll decide on a loading sometime soon and load up a Box to try out in my Colt 1902 Sporting Model.

I do not know of any place which sells the old IDEAL 356 742 Bullet or it's equally obscure and forgotten slightly shorter Brother...I wish someone would sell them! They deserve to be available...and a 125 Grain smaller Brother one would be a delight.

Hosted on Fotki
 
#7 · (Edited)
The older Lyman Manual #45; page 169:

"For the "Standard 38 Auto" cartridge, it is recommended that you use a bullet of 133 grains or less. reduce the starting load by 1/2 grain and work up to the starting load.
Do not exceed this load with the "Standard Auto" cartridge."

Cases: Remington
Primers: Remington 1 1/2

130 Grain Jacketed
Bullseye..... 3.4..... 870
Unique...….. 5.0 …..961.....I'd keep this load at 5.0, same for Herco.
Herco……….. 5.5.... 974
Red Dot..... 3.5..... 825

Later editions do not have this statement, although I think #46 does, so I'm not so sure if this will apply to any load data. If you keep the FPS below 1000 you should be okay as the .38 Auto is listed at 1040 factory.
Factory .38 Automatic loads are pretty stout comparable to any standard 9mm Luger load.

Hornady publishes data for their bullets

Winchester data is 4.4 grains of 231.

These old Colt 38 Automatics are tougher then what might be suggested, but I would not try to load up past reliable functioning. These guns also seem to have weak headspace.
 
#8 ·
I have that manual. I have been using Sharpe's "COMPLETE GUIDE TO HANDLOADING". I have been using the 2.8 grains of Bullseye with a 148 Grain WC in my Colt .38 Special MidRange and it cycles well and shoots well, actually much better than I do.
 
#9 ·
Fellas - I purchase 2 boxes of shells from a reputable seller on GB. Made the mistake of taking the gun to a show, and a guy made me an offer I couldn't refuse! Never even got to put a round through it!
 
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#10 ·
The last I saw at a gun show was offered at $70.00 a box. More than I want to pay. I did find a box not long after I bought the pistol, I was in Pa. and a small gun shop had a box of Aguila for $20.00. Of course I bought it.
 
#14 ·
I have 500 .38 ACP headstamped cases.

If loading our own, 38 Super Brass is the identical Cartridge, and perfectly alright to use it...it is a lot easier to find too. If not comfotable with possible confusions, then of course do not use .38 Super Brass, but stay with .38 ACP Brass proper.

As for me, I never liked FMJ, and I have never used it in Loading my own for anything.

Load your own, you can tailor your Rounds to be what you want, and to have the kind of Bullet you want, have the FPS you want.

Cast your own Bullets too, and it is just that much nicer.

If not for the Hague Convention of the 1890s which had the subscribers agree to no more use of "Dum Dum" Bullets in Rifles in context of formally declared War, no one in Civilian Life would have ever wanted or liked or had any reason to ever use FMJ in anything, and certainly not in any Hand Guns.

Being as the early Automatic Pistols Manufacturers wished for Military Patronage, ammo Makers elected to go along with the Hague Accord for those Pistol's Cartridges...otherwise, we'd have had Lead Bullets the whole time for all the Automatics, and some Semi-Jacketed Soft Points maybe, for those who may want them, and those likely only for the Luger P-'08 and .38 ACP, since .380 and 32 ACP likely would not be able to really justify their use for want of enough mass and FPS for a semi-Jacketed Soft Point to really expand well on impact.

Lead Bullet will go faster on the same Powder charge with less pressure, than FMJ, and are very kind to the Barrels and to the Pistol as a whole.

FMJ is hard on the Pistols and hard on the Barrel's Rifling and are much less efficient in every way...making for higher pressure, higher Heat, more wear and strain, and nothing gained in accuracy at all...

Load your own! And be Happy!

It's fun! and very satisfying!
I do cast my own at times. That is how I learned reloading many years ago. As of right now I have 18,000 slugs on hand.
 
#13 · (Edited)
If loading our own, 38 Super Brass is the identical Cartridge, and perfectly alright to use it...it is a lot easier to find too. If not comfotable with possible confusions, then of course do not use .38 Super Brass, but stay with .38 ACP Brass proper.

As for me, I never liked FMJ, and I have never used it in Loading my own for anything.

Load your own, you can tailor your Rounds to be what you want, and to have the kind of Bullet you want, have the FPS you want.

Cast your own Bullets too, and it is just that much nicer.

If not for the Hague Convention of the 1890s which had the subscribers agree to no more use of "Dum Dum" Bullets in Rifles in context of formally declared War, no one in Civilian Life would have ever wanted or liked or had any reason to ever use FMJ in anything, and certainly not in any Hand Guns.

Being as the early Automatic Pistols Manufacturers wished for Military Patronage, ammo Makers elected to go along with the Hague Accord for those Pistol's Cartridges...otherwise, we'd have had Lead Bullets the whole time for all the Automatics, and some Semi-Jacketed Soft Points maybe, for those who may want them, and those likely only for the Luger P-'08 and .38 ACP, since .380 and 32 ACP likely would not be able to really justify their use for want of enough mass and FPS for a semi-Jacketed Soft Point to really expand well on impact.

Lead Bullet will go faster on the same Powder charge with less pressure, than FMJ, and are very kind to the Barrels and to the Pistol as a whole.

FMJ is hard on the Pistols and hard on the Barrel's Rifling and are much less efficient in every way...making for higher pressure, higher Heat, more wear and strain, and nothing gained in accuracy at all...

Load your own! And be Happy!

It's fun! and very satisfying!
 
#17 ·
Circle Shooting sport Illustration Clock Recreation

Shot this today with my M1903 Hammer. I shot at only 7 yards for these shots. The 15 yard group was a bit larger and a bit high left. Those ity-bitty sights are hard to see for these old eyes. The 2.8 Grains of Bullseye would not cycle the action. Will be trying either a 3.0 grain load or 3.5 grain load next. But none the less it was and is fun. What else does a retiree need?
 
#18 ·
Just so happens that I shot one of our Pocket Hammer Colt's today.
One load was 5.0 Unique, my brother stated that they sounded like my .38 Supers, but they're not.
When I found out IMR 4756 was discontinued I bought the last two cans locally: 5.0 barely worked the slide with the case getting caught in the ejection port, but 5.3 seemed like ca nice light load.

Looking at that old Lyman data Red Dot should make a nice load. I've never used any Red Dot, but might get some.
 
#24 ·
Love the pocket hammers. Plated, only because there cleaner to load than lead and still easy on the barrels, 125 gr .357 dia. flat point behind enough bullseye to get reliable cycling. As Oyeboten mentioned need to beat these old guns up more than necessary.
Tableware Knife
.
Dang I will never get the hang of adding a picture so it ends up in the correct orientation!
 
#27 ·
When I acquired my Pocket Hammer, I chose to load it lighter than the factory 130 @ 1040 FPS. Didn't want to stress that little slide lock on my 1914 example, and end up eating the slide;) I used the Speer 124 grain TMJ-RN and worked up to 4.5 grains of Unique. This produced 952 FPS and the pistol functioned reliably. I ran out of Unique, but had plenty of, moderately slower, 3N37 on hand. Worked up to 6 grains 3N37, which averaged 941 FPS and also produced reliable function. Unimpressive ballistics with my light loads, but I enjoy shooting the old gun once in awhile without worrying too much about breaking something.
 

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#28 ·
Went to the range today with two different loadings for my 1903 Hammer. First was 125 Grain Cast RN with 3.5 Grains of Bullseye. The second was 4.7 Grains of Bullseye and a 125 Grain Cast RN. Both loads operated the slide the second loading did so with a bit more authority. However, the cast lead RN slugs did not do well in the accuracy department. The group size was about 3-4 inches at 7 yards for both loadings. Will be trying the same loadings with a 130 Grain FMJ slug next week.
 
#31 ·
148 Grain Semi Wadcutters, of the sort usually used in .38 Special, always fed fine and worked perfectly in my Colt .38 Autos.

Powder Charge to be adjusted accordingly of course.

These were very nice for Paper Targets.

I never sized them down, and their .357 /.358 diameter was fine as is.
 
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