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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
hello, i suppose the navy i am investigating with images and comments here on this page is not part of the group you are describing, but what about the ormsby engraved gold and silver inlaid cased 1849 pocket sold in 2002 by a prominent west coast dealer?
regards, bro
Sounds like a good candidate. Sight unseen, I put money on it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
hello, i suppose the navy i am investigating with images and comments here on this page is not part of the group you are describing, but what about the ormsby engraved gold and silver inlaid cased 1849 pocket sold in 2002 by a prominent west coast dealer?
regards, bro
Navy may be fab, but not a Fab Fifty.
 

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Navy may be fab, but not a Fab Fifty.
Navy may be fab, but not a Fab Fifty.
[/QUOTEhello; for those who enjoy unicorn hunting, do you have any further clues to help our searching? warren mariconda told me he had seen fewer than a handful of ormsby engraved dragoons and navys so these fab fifty are certainly rara avis.
regards, bro
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
744959

i Think this is one 9343. The portrait is said to be Hays, but it looks like Napoleon III. Scroll work by LDN and the motif as well. Probably Ormsby planned, but not his engraving. The portrait is simplistic, as other portraits of the period seen on Colts. Art Tobias says maybe Ormsby Junior. Ormsby was accomplished at portraiture. So no matter what Wilson said it’s not like his work at all. The inscription was cut after the gun was engraved and plated.
Font Rectangle Magenta Symbol Pattern

Scroll work by LDN, as a fresh off the boat journeyman. Probably Ormsby planned. The portrait everyone says is of Hays, but it looks more like Napoleon Iii. Gun was engraved and then plated. The inscription came later, but not too much later. The handling marks etc are on top of the inscription.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
View attachment 744959
i Think this is one 9343. The portrait is said to be Hays, but it looks like Napoleon III. Scroll work by LDN and the motif as well. Probably Ormsby planned, but not his engraving. The portrait is simplistic, as other portraits of the period seen on Colts. Art Tobias says maybe Ormsby Junior. Ormsby was accomplished at portraiture. So no matter what Wilson said it’s not like his work at all. The inscription was cut after the gun was engraved and plated. View attachment 744959
Scroll work by LDN, as a fresh off the boat journeyman. Probably Ormsby planned. The portrait everyone says is of Hays, but it looks more like Napoleon Iii. Gun was engraved and then plated. The inscription came later, but not too much later. The handling marks etc are on top of the inscription.
Sorry for the double post. iPhone made me do it.
 

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View attachment 744959
i Think this is one 9343. The portrait is said to be Hays, but it looks like Napoleon III. Scroll work by LDN and the motif as well. Probably Ormsby planned, but not his engraving. The portrait is simplistic, as other portraits of the period seen on Colts. Art Tobias says maybe Ormsby Junior. Ormsby was accomplished at portraiture. So no matter what Wilson said it’s not like his work at all. The inscription was cut after the gun was engraved and plated. View attachment 744959
Scroll work by LDN, as a fresh off the boat journeyman. Probably Ormsby planned. The portrait everyone says is of Hays, but it looks more like Napoleon Iii. Gun was engraved and then plated. The inscription came later, but not too much later. The handling marks etc are on top of the inscription.
hello, i have seen that plate. federal wareagles are quite rare on colts. my belief is that nimsche first worked fur business and then for ormsby as james wolfe anglicising for obvious reasons. interesting the carving on walnut handle. thanks for the help. i am also interested in the whereabouts of the 1847 pairs of polk, buchannan, scott, taylor, twiggs, walker, and stanton.i believe the markings externally were drastically changed after the dies were returned to ormsby following the letter from colt's lawyer stating uncle ehlers was going to allow colt his patents from paterson. i am sure colt was trying to patent improvements in the 1847 untill he learned work for government was not patentable. therefore i surmise the very first run of 1847s was not marked the same as the rest, may have duplicate serial numbers, and different roll information from the new dies. maybe.
regards, bro
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Sorry for the double post. iPhone made me do it.
View attachment 744963
hello, i have seen that plate. federal wareagles are quite rare on colts. my belief is that nimsche first worked fur business and then for ormsby as james wolfe anglicising for obvious reasons. interesting the carving on walnut handle. thanks for the help. i am also interested in the whereabouts of the 1847 pairs of polk, buchannan, scott, taylor, twiggs, walker, and stanton.i believe the markings externally were drastically changed after the dies were returned to ormsby following the letter from colt's lawyer stating uncle ehlers was going to allow colt his patents from paterson. i am sure colt was trying to patent improvements in the 1847 untill he learned work for government was not patentable. therefore i surmise the very first run of 1847s was not marked the same as the rest, may have duplicate serial numbers, and different roll information from the new dies. maybe.
regards, bro
Lot more info on that than I know. Try Art Tobias book on cylinder scenes. Worthwhile read. LDN would have been 18, a journeyman, when he did this, not a master. It’s the earliest identified LDN. He did not do the scrolls near the address. Creed Taylor, on the butt, fought in the major battles for Independence, then a Ranger he rode with Hays, Mex War etc. in 1842 he named his first son John Hays.

most inscriptions were done by jewelers who lettered cups, plaques, pocket watches, day in day out.
 

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View attachment 744963


Lot more info on that than I know. Try Art Tobias book on cylinder scenes. Worthwhile read. LDN would have been 18, a journeyman, when he did this, not a master. It’s the earliest identified LDN. He did not do the scrolls near the address. Creed Taylor, on the butt, fought in the major battles for Independence, then a Ranger he rode with Hays, Mex War etc. in 1842 he named his first son John Hays.

most inscriptions were done by jewelers who lettered cups, plaques, pocket watches, day in day out.
hello, i have tobias excellent cylinder book. thanks.
regards, bro
 

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By?

i hope your opthamologist can render aid.
hello, my retina dude doctor says the problem is not reversible. was taking injections in 2020 monthly before covid, i have a 1/2 dime sized black spot in center of vision. thank goodness i have a grandson with 20 - 20 vision, and i have touch typing and spellcheck. thanks for your consideration.
regards, bro
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
By?

i hope your opthamologist can render aid.
hello, my retina dude doctor says the problem is not reversible. was taking injections in 2020 monthly before covid, i have a 1/2 dime sized black spot in center of vision. thank goodness i have a grandson with 20 - 20 vision, and i have touch typing and spellcheck. thanks for your consideration.
regards, bro
What causes this? One eye? Will it affect both?
 

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What causes this? One eye? Will it affect both?
the doctors tell me rarely are both eyes similarly affected - fortunately!!! it is similar to detached retina, but in a different area, the center. they let me look at my scans which gave me the thought to inspect the navy colt with one. i use the lowest magnification, x. the usb scanners run from 40 dollars to mid thousands for the complicated ones, by the way, the ophthalmologists nurses refer to the retina specialists as the retina boys, and mine looks to be seventeen going on thirty.
regards, bro
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
perhaps ormsby might have had a navy or two for practice in '49. colt was very good at planning ahead. the collins paterson .44 cal.s showed that; as well as all the prototypes he had made for many types of arms.
regards, bro
I was thinking of reading, studying, planning, and sketching out ideas well before he ever put chisel to metal.
 

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I was thinking of reading, studying, planning, and sketching out ideas well before he ever put chisel to metal.
hello; my understanding is that ormsby sent his engravers over to the museum of natural history for their inspiration, you have tobias - on pages 1 and 2 his invention the pentograph was described. if - big if - it worked as expected little preparation would be needed before actual engraving commenced. the time was 1849, colts factory was not as sophisticated as damlier-benz; short pre production runs were not difficult; as well as other examples, there are two serial no. 3 navy colts known. one of them was presented to secretary marcy. so, knowing colts eccentricities, it is not unbelievable that several pre production navys could have been made and engraved before production began sometime in 1850.
it is too bad they did not have "save" or the cloud back then. speculation is entertaining and without a notebook or the wayback machine, we may never know.
regards, bro
 
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