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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 70 series Combat Commander .45 that is in the Satin Nickel finish. What kind of magazine did it come with from the factory? Was it also satin nickeled and were there markings on the bottom to differentiate it from a standard finished mag?
The grips on my gun do not have any kind of medallion on them. Could they possibly have been shipped this way or are they definately add-ons?
Thanx,
bdGreen
 

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The original magazine would have also been satin coated, and would have the full Colt Commercial markings, including the Colt pony.

[This message has been edited by dfariswheel (edited 01-12-2005).]
 

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What type of grips does your gun have? IF I recollect correctly, most of the 1911 Colts in the '70s had uncheckered grips with a rough finish & Colt medallions. Imagine rainwater running down a window pane & that was the texture.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The grips on there now are vintage looking fully checkered. No medallion. They have some honest age to them.
Also wondering about the beavertail grip safety. Really looks 'right' to the gun with the finish and all being exactly the same as the frame. Did Colt ship the Combat Commander with a beavertail grip safety?
The right side of my slide says:
Colt's Combat Commander Model
I have seen other series 70's without the word "Model" at the end.
 

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I would be curious to know why you call your pistol a "Series 70." As far as I know, there were no Series 70 Commanders or Combat Commanders. The distinguishing feature of the Series 70 pistols is the collett bushing, and the Commander and Combat Commander do not have the collett bushing, so cannot be Series 70 pistols. (The Blue Book is in error again on this issue.) If you look at your pistol, I do not think you will find any reference to "Series 70" anywhere on it.

By "Satin Nickel," do you mean "ColtGuard" electroless nickel? If not, your pistol has been refinished.

The stocks are not correct. Early Combat Commanders had sandblasted wood with a gold medallion. Later ones had full-checkered wood with a gold medallion.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JudgeColt:
I would be curious to know why you call your pistol a "Series 70." As far as I know, there were no Series 70 Commanders or Combat Commanders. The distinguishing feature of the Series 70 pistols is the collett bushing, and the Commander and Combat Commander do not have the collett bushing, so cannot be Series 70 pistols. (The Blue Book is in error again on this issue.) If you look at your pistol, I do not think you will find any reference to "Series 70" anywhere on it.

By "Satin Nickel," do you mean "ColtGuard" electroless nickel? If not, your pistol has been refinished.

The stocks are not correct. Early Combat Commanders had sandblasted wood with a gold medallion. Later ones had full-checkered wood with a gold medallion.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Left Slide Panel: "Combat Commander / COLT /Automatic Caliber .45 / (rampant colt)"
Right Slide Panel: "Colt's Combat Commander Model"
Frame SN: 70SC67XXX
Seems like the serial number alone is all the identification needed to put it in the right era.
Nothing about collet bushing mentioned in earlier post...
Nothing about any Blue Book references mentioned in earlier post...
By satin nickel, I mean satin nickel. Not refinished, not ColtGuard.
The stocks are not correct, as I figured.

Outta here...
bdGreen
 

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I have an identical gun. Bought it new in the mid 70's. Paid $230 for it. The finish is indeed Satin Nickel and the magazines are also satin nickel. Had a trigger job done on mine...otherwise it is stock....with the brown checkered wood grips. Mine has maybe 200 rounds thru it. Still LNIB.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by texagun:
I have an identical gun. Bought it new in the mid 70's. Paid $230 for it. The finish is indeed Satin Nickel and the magazines are also satin nickel. Had a trigger job done on mine...otherwise it is stock....with the brown checkered wood grips. Mine has maybe 200 rounds thru it. Still LNIB.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
texagun,
thanx for the confirmation. Do your grips have medallions? Is the mag release button checkered or grooved up and down? Mine has a beaver tail grip safety and it is like another series 70 of mine that I bought from the Colt Custom Shop. Does yours have this?
Blue Book calls this model 'scarce' or 'rare' with the Satin Nickel. I can't remember which.
What's the chances of us exchanging two or three images so I can make a couple more comparisons? I have a few more questions that could be answered better visually.
Thanx again, Let me know.
bdGreen
 

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Mr. Green, I stand corrected on the ColtGuard issue. I was thinking of later guns that used that finish. (The mind dims with age!) Sorry. My bad. The early Combat Commanders were indeed available in satin nickel, but are somewhat uncommon in that finish.

I mentioned the Blue Book because I have raised this Commander/Combat Commander "Series 70" issue before and someone quoted the Blue Book as the authority for calling a Commander a "Series 70," when it was not because it did not have a collett bushing nor was it marked "Series 70" on the slide like the "Series 70" Government Models. The fact that in 1970 Colt introduced a new serial numbering system with the Combat Commander and other O-frame automatics that began with a "70" causes some people to misidentify those pistols as "Series 70" when they do not have the "Series 70" characteristic collett bushing and do not have the "Series 70" designation on the slide.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JudgeColt:
Mr. Green, I stand corrected on the ColtGuard issue. I was thinking of later guns that used that finish. (The mind dims with age!) Sorry. My bad. The early Combat Commanders were indeed available in satin nickel, but are somewhat uncommon in that finish.

I mentioned the Blue Book because I have raised this Commander/Combat Commander "Series 70" issue before and someone quoted the Blue Book as the authority for calling a Commander a "Series 70," when it was not because it did not have a collett bushing nor was it marked "Series 70" on the slide like the "Series 70" Government Models. The fact that in 1970 Colt introduced a new serial numbering system with the Combat Commander and other O-frame automatics that began with a "70" causes some people to misidentify those pistols as "Series 70" when they do not have the "Series 70" characteristic collett bushing and do not have the "Series 70" designation on the slide.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please post a picture of the bushing you refer to as a 'collet'. My interpretation of my bushing is that it is a collet style bushing. It isn't a split fingered bushing if that is the determination you are trying to make.

bdGreen
 

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The "collet" bushing (on 70 series Government models) is the one with 4 separate "fingers" that gripped the barrel instead of being solid all the way around. Commanders never had that type of bushing which is why they are not "70 series" although many refer to them as such.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/s70_colts.htm

follow the above link. Last picture on the bottom of the page is my gun. Satin nickel, and according to them a 'Series 70 Combat Commander'.
Look at the serial number '70SCxxxxx, same as mine.

"Series 70 Combat Commander – produced in bluish-black metal finish and satin nickel. The satin nickel models are very rare."
 

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If you look at your Colt I am sure that on both sides of the slide it says “Colt Combat Commander” (as well as the caliber). Nowhere on it does it say “70 series model” or anything similar. If you have a commander marked “70 series” you have an incredible rarity and you should lock it away for safe keeping, it’s probably one of a kind. “70 series” is a term that was only used by Colt on their full sized models with the “collet” bushing; the term was used by them to differentiate the newer government models from the older ones that had the solid bushing (among other changes). Now people have a tendency to lump them all together, any Colt made in the 1970s is a “70 series” gun but Colt never referred to them that way! As far as Colt is concerned only the full size models with the “collet” bushing is a “70 series”. Of course it doesn’t help that Colt used 70 in the serial number of many of their guns made back then, which only adds to the confusion.
 

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45automaticman, thank you for your help in trying to correct the misuse of the term "Series 70" in identifying Commanders and Combat Commanders. There is no such thing. The fact that the serial number has a "70" prefix does not make the pistol a "Series 70." The slide is not so marked as it is on true "Series 70" pistols. The link offered by bdGreen shows how pervasive this misuse of the term "series 70" is.

Now that we have fought that battle, how about helping me stamp out the misuse of "Model 1911" and "Model 1911A1" in connection with commercial pistols! No commercial pistols were ever called by the military nomenclature. All commercial pistols are "Government Models" or "National Matches," etc.. As I search for certain military pistols, I have to look at hundreds of commercial pistols misidentified as "Models 1911" or "Models 1911A1."
 

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This is one of those little misconceptions that will never be stamped out, no matter how hard we try, so don't be too hard on the poor fellow. This is one of those things that upset the same people that quiver and shiver when they hear stocks called grips...
 

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I don’t want to seem like I am coming down on bdGreen. I can certainly understand the mistake, especially considering that there are people that have been shooting and owning these guns for years that don’t know any better. I apologize if I went overboard, it just gets a little frustrating seeing that mistake over and over again, even appearing on web sites!

As far as the 1911/1911A1 thing, I guess that is even more pervasive than the “70 series” mistake and I have had a lot of arguments about that, including gun dealers that don’t know any better! I personally own quite a few Government Models but I have only owned one 1911 and one 1911A1.
 

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I'm a bit of a stickler for words and also for using old nomenclature for weapons made with holes drilled in the frame for safety locks and MIM parts and such, but I think Jeff Cooper made a useful point when he once tried to popularize the term 1911 pistols for the vast mass of clones that hit the market. I don't personally find the term "1911 pistol" offensive in referring to the commercial Colt variants though I'd prefer to add Colt Commercial to distinguish that original variant from the clones. Actually prefer it to Colt Government Model since GM covers a host of different pistols and revolvers.

Of course, that's so much for opinion whose commonality is like to the prevalence of certain orifices. But then I object to Colt terming the steel frame Commander the COMBAT Commander, too. Hasn't seem to affect anyone's opinion... not to mention the similarity of terming the Officer's ACP when the great old Officer's Model Match and Special had prior claim or Smiths Chief Special autoloaders.... Hard to fuss at folks lack of precision when the factories seem to lead by example...

Cheers

------------------
"And the blithe revolver began to sing/ To the blade that twanged on the locking-ring..."
 
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I've never seen anything in print that says Colt series 70 guns all had collet bushings(and I must admit, that, I've not read everything in print). If memory serves, Colt couldn't get the Commanders to work with the collet bushing just like the Officers model would never work with anything except the tappered barrel(no bushing, still it's a series '80, ain't it?). One thing is for sure, Colt series 70, semi auto 1911 pistols were mainly, if not totally?, made in the "1970's", and the series 80's started showing up in the early "1980's" and to my thinking anyway, that's where the title came from(the years of manufacture). Could be that I missed something but, that's the way I remember this going down. Correct grammar aside, everywhere I've seen one of these pistols, that's what they've been called. I would also like to say, that if anyone knows of a source of information stating exact(I'm not talking about a gun writers thoughts here or a single persons views but, maybe something Colt has published) to clear this up, I for one, would appreciate being inform of it? My $.02.
[This message has been edited by S.B (edited 03-05-2005).]

[This message has been edited by S.B (edited 03-09-2005).]
 

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256M-S, I disagree a bit with your discussion of Colt nomenclature. While I would prefer if Colt had not used derivatives of honored old names for new guns, I do not see any confusion between an Officers Model revolver, and an Officers ACP. After all, ACP means "Automatic Colt Pistol," which does not seem easily confused with a revolver.

S.B., beginning in 1970, the collett bushing was featured in Colt catalogs, but only in connection with the guns with 5-inch barrels. The gun magazines were full of this feature when it came out.

The reason the Commander and Combat Commander do not have the collett bushing is because the short bushing on those 4.75-inch barrel guns will not allow long enough "fingers." It has nothing to do with getting the guns to work with collett bushings. They would work fine if the fingers could be made flexible enough, but the short length of the bushing does not make that possible.

The collett bushing was great for accuracy enhancement, but the failure of the fingers from constant flexing after sufficient rounds made them unreliable in heavy use.
 
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