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Discussion Starter #1
If I am lurking at an auction, on an auction site, and see an active Colt Forum member bidding, and are not an active bidder, do I jump in at the last minute with a crazy high bid, and knock the forum member out? No! Why? Because guns are a hobby to me, and not life or death. Unless, I am looking at the wrong end of a gun.

Chances are that item will reappear at some other time, or I will do without it.

This has not happened to me personally. I am just making a point!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
First of all, I have never bought a box online, and my name isn't buddy.

End of comments.
 

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Suppose it was a 1 in 50 model that have been actively sought after for many, many years and was at the top of your "must have list" to complete a special collection?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I posed this post because I see folks jumping in at the end of an auction that have not actively bid during the course of the auction, either running up the price, or trying to rip the item off at the bitter end. Yes, they have a perfect right to do it, and am I annoyed sometimes, yes, I'm human, and thats life.

If a specific gun is that important to someone, then have at it!

I seem to be able to find enough rare, fine pieces to keep me broke without going outside the bounds of common courtesy.

So I got a gripe off my chest!

Have a great week everybody.
 

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Since I have never been successful on an item on one of the gun auction sites, I will comment on bidding tactics in general. The only price that is important is the final price from either the buyer or seller perspective. How you get there is your business. On ebay, if I really want something I either bid my maximum bid and ride with it or I watch the auction close and bid then. You frequently get a lower final price if you bid near the closing point. In some cases, you do just push the price up for another bidder. But, I usually set a maximum and I do not exceed it except in rare circumstances. I have had sellers comment via email about all the last minute bidding on items and how it is accomplished within a second or two of closing. This can be frustrating to a bidder who has had the high bid all along only to be beat by a few dollars at the last minute.

With guns on the sought after piece, my experience is that someone else wants it more, so I loose. I do sometimes place a relatively low bid on items just in case no one bids on the item. That has not worked yet on guns. I simply don't care much for the gun auction sites as I don't have it set up where I can conveniently purchase something via a FFL and I'm not very trusting of dealer listings. My 2-cents.
 

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I guess I am coming in late to this issue, and I do not know what generated it, so I may be adding fuel to the fire. If so, I apologize. If I am the subject of robba's comments, I shall try to explain my side of the story. I did not know that being the top bidder on an auction was discourteous.

I cannot see how when one bids can be offensive. An auction by its nature sells to the one (fool?) willing to pay the most, and that is always the last high bidder at close, not to the first one to bid. What requires one to enter a $1.00 bid, then $2.00, etc. for dozens or hundreds of times on an item that will eventually sell for $1,000? How many bids would be required in order not to have it be offensive or discourteous? If one bids $1.00 at the start and then two weeks later wins it for one more bid of $1,000, would that be offensive or discourteous? How is bidding at an auction "running up the price?" Is that not what an auction is, an increasing of the price offered until finally no one raises the last bid?

I only bid on those items that are important to me. I see some bidders who post an early low bid on many items and then never bid again. What is the value of that? I always assumed they just like to seem like a "player" but are really not. If an item that will sell for $1,000 opens at $1.00, what is the use of a bidder "running it up" to $5.00 a dollar at a time?

I seldom bid until the auction is ready to close. I bid at the end because, if another bidder has time to think about my bid, perhaps auction fever will take over and the other bidder will talk himself or herself into bidding more given enough time. It also saves time by not having to watch the item during the time it runs. Many times, an item will go way by what I am willing to pay as the close nears, so an earlier bid would just have been wasted anyway. If a last minute bid "steals" an item, then the other bidders were the ones who were trying to buy it under market and had not bid enough to prevent a bargain from being had.

I bid what an item is worth to me, and sometimes I win, and sometimes I lose. Everyone has the right to do the same. For every auction I win, I must realize I was the only one in the world dumb enough to pay more than anyone else thought it was worth.

If last minute bids annoy, then bid only on GunBroker, where any bid in the last fifteen minutes extends the bid time for another fifteen minutes, so there can be no "sniping." I once was involved in an auction that went on for about two hours after the initial closing time. My autobid kept being topped just as time was to expire, thus extending the time another fifteen minutes. The other bidder apparently talked himself or herself into bidding more each time my autobid topped the other bidder's most recent bid. I did not know I had won the item until I returned from church a couple of hours later. As I recall, my autobid only had a few dollars left before I would have been outbid. Auctions are strange sometimes! Should I have been mad at the other bidder for "running up the price? No, it is an AUCTION where the highest bidder always wins. It is the last bid that counts, not prior bids.

In closing, I say to robba, if I am the subject of your post, I apologize for annoying you, but I cannot see any reason to change my tactics. Have a great week too!
 

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[ QUOTE ]
For every auction I win, I must realize I was the only one in the world dumb enough to pay more than anyone else thought it was worth.

[/ QUOTE ]

AMEN!!!
 

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I do agree with JudgeColt and others. I also bid late in the auction hoping that the price won't be driven up. Even then I only bid what I want to pay. Of course that could knock out the previous bidders and someone could come along and knock me out, but it is a public auction and that's how it's run. Simply not bidding because you see someone you know have bidded doesn't automatically mean they will win the auction. If you want an item you want it no matter who else may also want it.
If this is offensive to you then maybe you should stay off the auction sites for a peace of mind.
[ QUOTE ]
or trying to rip the item off at the bitter end.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why is it ripping off the item if you bid late in the auction? The auction is still running and you can only bid higher than the last posted bid. Only if you are the highest bidder will it be accepted. Exactly where are you ripping something off.
Common courtesey is to abide by the rules and graceously accept the fact that you either won or lost the auction.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hey guys! I did not bring this up about anyone, or any single auction at all. It was a general peeve.

I have not lost one gun on an auction to a late bidder. I have had one bid up at the last minute, but the guy was in early on, and evidently wanted the revolver as much as I did. It was the shooting master I bought recently.

So, quit taking this personally everybody!
 

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I don't like auctions and very rarely participate. It would need to be something I want VERY badly, and right now I can't think of anything that I am willing to pay such an inflated price for. I have a "1" positive feedback score on GB and I have purchased two items from AuctionArms, but I certainly have a nice (growing, but ever so humble) collection I am very proud of. I don't know how all these firearms turned into sanctified "da Vinci's" that need to be auctioned as if they are priceless. Ebay started this crap and it has become a culture. Ten years ago all of this would have been advertised at an asking price and sold first come, first serve. Many people have gotten sucked into this auction thing like a gambling addiction.

Now here's the real unethical issue: How many auctions do you see that are closed with no bidding, but never get reposted? How many say "reserve the right to end auction early"? There are lots of dealers side-stepping GunBroker and making the deal on the side in order to eliminate the percentage they would pay for selling at auction. This is a fact. Anyone that has spent any time on the gunbroker forum will know that the subject of all the dealers who merely list their inventory and never sell at auction is a subject that has been beaten to death. If they want to do this, then they should create sellers in the fashion of those on Ebay with "Ebay Stores" at fixed "buy now" prices.

I have found only a very few dealers which I consider to be very respectable at this auction profession. They are all no reserve and state specifically that they will not end auctions early. What's even more interesting is that these upstanding dealers appear to be the most successful at their trade, and their products all sell at fair and usually uninflated value. Other dealers I consider respectable give their starting price with no reserve. Buying a gun should not be a guessing game! These people that have a starting price of $500 and a reserve of $1500 are "bottom feeders", and I don't know why anyone would play their game.

There's my little rant.

Robba - There was an auction for a gun item on Ebay that I had looked at very recently and the high bidder was a "robbaxx". I immediately thought this was you. To answer your first question; I was NOT going to bid on this item because I did believe it was you. It was so coincidental that you brought up this subject at the same time that I made what I thought was a humorous post earlier. I sincerely apologize if it was in bad taste and in any way caused this topic to appear as directed at you personally.

Mark A.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
First of all. I am not robbaxx.

I do not belong to Ebay. I may join in the future to buy gun parts, etc.

I do buy revolvers on auction when I can, and can afford them because, there are guns on the auction sites that you cannot find locally, or for that matter perhaps not again in your lifetime.

The Shooting Master I bought on auction is an example. I had pretty well given up ever finding one period, let alone one in that condition anywhere. I would like a box for it.

So all I was doing at the start of this post, was venting a little on auction lurkers. OK?

Lighten up, everybody!

By the way, I am looking at changing my handle to the one I use on another forum to stop the confusion.
 

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No need to change your handle here. We all know you and that would be confusing.

This was my stupid mistake. No one should make assumptions. And my type of humor can be a little dry and satirical at times. I am usually more careful.

We can talk about auctions all you want, but we should probably do it over in the general discussion area. I positively hate auctions. Always have and always will.
 

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Add me to the list of what some call "snipers". I do this to avoid the ethically challenged folks who run up bids on their own items, or have a buddy who does it for them...and yes, this does happen! "Sniping" also avoids those last minute testosterone surges that some bidders get if they have a few minutes to think. I decide the maximum price I want to pay, enter it in the last 15 seconds, and if there's a proxy bid higher than mine, he gets it. That's why it's called an auction, be it internet, or face to face...high bidder buys it. Second place gets nothing. If I recognize a personal friend bidding on the same item, I may back away, or make a phone call, depending on the circumstances.
 

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Robba, I expect this wasn't just what you intended, but I believe it has been a good topic. I see myself in several posts and it is sort of a(n) (in)sanity check. Perhaps we should go OT and discuss humor on this forum. Ooops, I did it again. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I think it was kind of interesting hearing all of your opinions on this. Yes we perhaps should have done it in a different area, but it kind of ran on under its own steam.

The Colt Forum folks are for the most part about the finest people on the net. I enjoy the reparte'.

"Good bidding", to you all. Love em, or hate em, auctions are here to stay!
 

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I take a couple of days off and all hell breaks loose.

I must have a say on this interesting post. I purchase 2/3's of my guns off of auctions sights or GA. For those who know Addicted they know that I purchase very specific guns (revolvers). The auction sights and GA is a very broad market place. If I look, I will find it.

There has been some outstanding comments and I dissagree with none of them. I'm in the camp of taking a auction at the last few seconds. I doubt that very many members use their username as their auction user name (I don't for one). You'll bid against me and not even know it.

Recently JudgeColt beat me out of some rare very early AR-15 magazines. I was holding off to get them for $10 less than the buy it now. Judge stepped in a couple hours before the auction ended and took it with buy it now. I could have purchased the item with buy it now but I took a chance and it cost me. If anyone (other than me) was going to take the auction it should be him. I lost fair and square. Maybe someday he'll will me one magazine. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

The 12th commandment, "you have no friends on auction bidding. You want it, you bid it".
 

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robba, I did not take it personally, but I wondered if your comments might have been directed at me because I always bid as the auctioin closes.

It was not the personal aspect we are challenging, it is your logic of criticizing the very core nature of public auctions. High bidder gets it, always. Bid more and you always win. Early bids mean nothing. Only the closing bid means anything.

As for those who do not bid at auctions, that is your choice. However, I have been collecting Colts for over 40 years and have never seen many of the Colts at gun shows that have been offered for sale on the auction sites. In my area, far from the riches of Gun Valley, only common guns are genearlly seen. The auction sites give me a chance to buy guns I have never even seen.

As far as the auction prices being out of line, that cannot be. An auction site, absent fraud which is not all that common, fixes the price between a willing seller and a willing buyer, each under no compulsion to sell or buy. That is the market price for that item at that time.

It stands to reason that if there thousands of potential bidders for a particular item that it will not sell under market, and that some bidders might think the value is higher than I do. That happens each time I lose an auction. It also happens each time I bid more than I ever thought I would since I have seen the auctions sites establish a national market price that is much higher than I would see locally, BUT I NEVER SEE THESE ITEMS LOCALLY!

As far as beating out Addicted on the early AR-15 magazines, Addicted had indicated to me a need for early magazines that would be correct for his new, early AR-15. Since the magazines that came with my three-digit had a right-side-up "Circle 1" and the magazines on the auction had an up-side-down "Circle 1," they would not be correct for his AR-15 anyway. I bought them as a curiosity and hope someday to learn the reason for the orientation differences.

Comparing the auction system to bulletin boards with posted prices is not valid. A posted price will only generate a sale if it is in line with or under the market established by the auction sites. Just look at all the GunBroker offerings with no bids. That is because the seller has established an opening bid that potential bidders find above market. They are essentially a bulletin board since the item sits there with no bids until someone decides to accept the sellers opening price and enter a bid.

I would love to get things "for cheap," but that does not happen very often on public auctions. I have to pay market to get most things. That is what an auction is.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Look guys! All I did in this post was point out a pet peeve of mine. I didn't expect it to start a finger pointing situation. My begining remark was about people that lurk on an auction, not bidding as the bidding goes along, and then jumping in at the end, to grab the item.

Believe me, I know this goes on as normal for a lot of peoples way of bidding, I guess. So no bid deal, I have my own ways of handling it, and have not personnaly lost a thing in an auction to what I guess we will can an "end bidder".

In the last week or so, I bought three pretty rare revolvers on auctions, one of which I posted pics, the shooting master, and the other two I'll share with you when I get them. The only one that was bid up at the end was the SM, and the guy made an honest effort to get it fairly. I wound up paying about $400. more for it than I hoped, but it was still way under its real value.

By the way, that has pretty well tapped me out for now. I hope nothing I want shows up for awhile.

Now as I said, I have my way of handling the expectation of end bidding, and it works!

Judge colt, this was not directed at you, or any other specific forum member. I was just airing a gripe, which in retrospect, I now wish I had kept to myself.

I will repeat that losing an auction item, is not that important to me. There are far, far, more goodies on the auction sites than I could ever hope to afford.

Now!!!! Can we put this little "red haired step child", of a post back in the attic??
 

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Whut' chu mean by "red-headed stepchild" Willis?

Just kidding.

Just as an observer to this thread it seems we certainly have a nice bunch of folks posting. Everyone is apologizing all over the place, and that's a nice thing to see....

And my two cents worth is pretty much like that of the majority.. The person with the last, highest bid takes the candy.. That seems to be what an auction is all about anyway.

Best Wishes,
JP
 
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