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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Any of you oldtimers remember Lash LaRue? Well, someone is auctioning off his Colt SAA... (NOT!)... The auction is 51611256 on gunbroker.com .

Here is a test for you to see how good your Fake detection skills are. Take a look at the photos shown by the seller. See if you can determine why the provenance to the gun is suspect...If you really want to test your self look at the auction before you read further...


Here is a hint: Compare the right grip of the SAA in the photo with the right grip of the SAA being held by Lash in the photo on the table.... Just remember its your hard earned collecting dollars at stake here.... :) Have fun! Bob Best
 

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I vaguely recall "Lash" from the B Movies as a kid in the late 40's! But this was the "nickname" of Mr. LaRue,who ran a nice full line gunshop(as well as being at many shows) in Portsmouth,NH around 15 years ago.

First,the trigger guard is NOT the same serial# as the frame,poor job of erasing it! The gun looks like a case hardened frame,in one photo,yet is nickled??.

Have no clue about the grips,except pattern is different as bisley said.

Just the non matching #s,I said earlier would turn me off. Just took a fast look at the gunbroker photos,as Ive seen TOO much of this crap on these auctions,

Trying to rip off the "unsuspecting",yet I do get a perverse joy of seeing some well heeled,but arrogant "collectors" get taken-when they have been fore warned!

Bud /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif BTW,that hammer looks awfully high also,with the nose above the frame. Again,this is the problem with buying from photos;they can be misleading(and often "posed" to hide the truth. BTW,did I ever tell you about the nurse who sent me a photo of herself wearing............
 

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FWIW I don't think that the claim is that it is the actual gun in the photo, just that it was owned and used by. The photo would seem to be just for effect and any association you would care to make in your own mind. Not defending - just analyzing.
:cool:
BTW - the REAL Lash LaRue (white hat version). :cool:
 

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The front sight is the most obvious difference.
I remember watching the old black and white Lash Larue westerns on Saturday morning TV along with Hoot Gibson, Bob Steele, Ken Maynard, Johnny Mack Brown, Buck Jones, Tim McCoy, and several others.
 

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[ QUOTE ]
The front sight is the most obvious difference.
I remember watching the old black and white Lash Larue westerns on Saturday morning TV along with Hoot Gibson, Bob Steele, Ken Maynard, Johnny Mack Brown, Buck Jones, Tim McCoy, and several others.

[/ QUOTE ]

And while watching, shooting my Mattel "Fanner 50s" and trying to find the plastic "bullets" for the rest of the weekend.
 

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I agree with A1A. The gun for sale is not represented as the gun in the picture.

The gun also is not represented as a mint, original speciman. It obviously is a poor refinish with parts substitutions, but that would be consistent with the movie industry where it only has to look good on film. Whether the gun for sale is authentic is the risk the buyer will take.

I do not get any joy about some "rich guy" getting ripped off, but I do have some anger that they do not seek information that is readily available that would prevent some scoundrel from being able to make a big score. So many times I have been tempted to contact a bidder and warn the bidder that the gun is a fake or refinished, etc., but I do not, and probably should not. Buyer beware.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Looks like you guys identified most of the things I picked up on .... One thing that wasn't mentioned was that I "googled" Lash LaRue. He is covered by a number of entries and there are some Hollywood photos of him with his six guns.... If you blow them up... I couldn't see any name engraved on the backstrap... The other point is this that his movie career was in the 40s and 50s... .45 acp chambering was a very uncommon thing in prewars and I believe all were gunsmith built... Colt didn't reintroduce the SAA in its second gen configuration until 1955 (Kind of late for his career) and the 45 acp was much later still...

I have seen a number of these type of associations where the seller has papers, pictures, etc from an individual and no where is there anything credible that really ties the gun to the person... One of you hit it... the seller is using psychology to get you to want to believe it is real and then you make the leap of faith and buy the gun in the heat of the auction process. If you check his auction wording you will see that there is little recourse if you find out later that the gun is a fake...

k217sc... I still have my Fanner 50 and the belt buckle deringer too! They sit in my gun room with my other "toys"!

Everyone, Thanks for responding! It was GREAT FUN! Hope you all have a Great 4th! Take care, Bob Best
 

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The .45 ACP chambering was very much available pre-war, and I'd guess that most were built by Colt.

The Single Action was popular with some Army officers, and since .45 ACP ammo was free and easily available, more than a few were chambered for it.

Just off hand I can think of two.
The famous SAA owned and used by George Patton, and the less well known and quite plain model owned by General Wainwright.

When General "Skinny" Wainwright was forced to surrender in 1941, one of his officers hid his .45 ACP SAA.
After the Philippines were liberated, the officer retrieved Wainwright's SAA and returned it to him.
The gun was worn from many years of use, and rusty from being in the jungle for 4 years, but still in serviceable condition.

The picture showed a standard SAA with 4 3/4" barrel, worn hard rubber grips and a lanyard swivel on the butt.
The gun was a special order from Colt sometime after WWI.

I think you're spot on about "allowing" a buyer to talk himself into buying something with non-specific documentation.

I've noticed on the gun action and Ebay sites, some buyers give a LONG drawn-out history of that TYPE of item, but really say nothing about that SPECIFIC item.
 

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i will expand a little on the .45 acp chambering in saa`s,the .45 acp was introed in 1924. a grand total of 44 were produced pre war in the standard saa only, i.e. no bisleys or flat tops.i THINK pattons gun was .45 long colt as it was produced a little before ww1 if i remember correctly. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

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I think I read it in Ladislas Farrago's biography on Patton that Patton had sent his SAA in to Colt to have it fitted with a .45 ACP cylinder prior to WWII, knowing that he would not be able to get .45 Colt ammo during the war.
 

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I'll bet Patton COULD have got hold of the "last" Govt. issued .45 Colt rounds-BUT he could have only loaded 3 rounds into his SAA! Anyone know why??

Good "quiz",and some more insight into this wonderful old cartridge??

Bud /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I'll bet Patton COULD have got hold of the "last" Govt. issued .45 Colt rounds-BUT he could have only loaded 3 rounds into his SAA! Anyone know why??



[/ QUOTE ] i belive the rim was enlarged to permit use in the 1909 d/a revolvers, the long colt as introduced had a very small rim.
 

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"Correcto Mundo" icdux!!

Following D.B. Wessons' "example" of NOT trusting the narrow rims" to be held by an extractor or ejector "star",the Army went to the 1909 Frankford case for the "temporary fix",the Colt New Service of 1909. Some of the loadings had a heavier slug than 250/255?? (maybe due to LaGuarde-Thompson cadaver/steer shooting tests??)

Funny,I have NEVER had trouble with the .45 Colt cases slipping past the ejector on my New Services or my pre/post war S&Ws. Before I "found out" about the wider rim,I always "believed" that old D.B.Wesson was "afraid" of the power of the .45 Colt. But yet he chambered this #3 Top Breaks(with the longer cylinders) in .38 wcf and .44 wcf. which are powerful rounds too. Earlier,the .45 Schofield,with its wider rim,shorter case and far less powerful loading than the "old" 250 gr. slug 40 gr. black powder,was also the "standard" for the Army in the SAA. Much of this had to do with "recoil" and the resulting loss of accuracy in the hands of the average soldier. The resulting 230/235 gr. loading in the shorter .45 S&W or Schofield case,is where the "unofficial term ,.45 Short Colt came from-and where the equally unofficial and erroneous .45 Long Colt came from!

A few of the 1909 Colts were converted to .45 acp(a few at A.A(Augusta Arsenal).,gunsmiths and by Colt for "selected officers who loved the old guns-(.I've even seen a parkerized one-what a waste ruining that Carbona!)

Chuck Karwan,in an article in 1989 Handguns Annual-get it if you LOVE New Services!-talks about 1909's still being in the small arms lockers of some of the oldest Navy Fleet Auxillary ships right through W.W. II!! And that the 1909 round still had a Govt. stock number as late as the 1960s!!

Bud
 

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I don't know why but today I said something about Lash LaRue at work to an older guy,,well someone who grew up in the 50's,,,He said "Tom Mix,Lash LaRue and the rest of the Crew",,whatever that meant...I walked away cause I met my match on name trivia.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hi Chevis,

I think your fellow worker was referring to the "Saturday Afternoon" movie serial and early cowboy tv shows ... they ran in the 40s and 50s and included Tom Mix who was a silent movie cowboy in the 30s and 40s. They would include Roy Rogers, Gene Autry, Gabby Hayes and a bunch of others that used to run in the theaters and on early television. I used to watch them on Saturdays from 2-4 pm when I was a kid on tv in the 50s...

If I remember correctly you and Addicted (Whatever happened to him anyway???) like old cars too... Tom Mix had old cars too.... There was an interesting movie about the hollywood cowboy in the twenties. It was called "Sunset" and starred James Garner as an aging Wyatt Earp hired as a consultant for a silent Hollywood movie staring Tom Mix... It was a fun movie and I pull it out occasionally and watch it! Great Fun! Bob Best
 

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Tom Mix got killed driving I belive, a old cord convertable
he ran off the road in a construction area, and a suit case
tyed above the trunk came loose and broke his neck. The car, or another he owned is displayed in a nice car museum
in Murdo, south dakota.
 

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Im sure he was,Tom Mix grew up about 50 miles north of Tulsa in a little oil town called Dewey,Ok.It's just Nth of Bartlesville.There is a Tom Mix museum there,with some of his guns and stuff on preview.It's nothing like the Museum across the state in Claremore though.The Davis gun mueseum.You can go back each month and they rotate the guns and you'll never see the same ones.Daisey BB guns gives them one of each of their new models so they will have the complete collection,is how thought of this museum is.There use to be a tank sitting outside too when I went there,years ago.Here is the link for anyone who might be comeing to Tulsa,they can skoot up the road and see some guns.I think the collection got started by Mr.Davis would take a gun as rent for his room and board in the hotel when someone didn't have any money.Or as word got out,(back before guns were thought of as mega collectables,)people would trade him guns,and he just took off as the largest private collector in the world,some say,at one time.


http://www.thegunmuseum.com/menu1.htm
 
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