[Dragoon]

Do the 2nd and 3rd generation c&b revolvers pass the "full length Arbor test"? If you install the barrel assy. 90 deg. out of phase and swing it down to meet the frame, is it flush, short or long? You do this with the cylinder out. Just curious.

It's real easy.
Surly someone here has a 2nd or 3rd gen. All you do is pull the wedge . . .
All open top mods.
After 4 days and 81 views, I would think someone that owned one would be curious enough to check theirs and tell what they find.

Ok, this is what I'm talking about. The 1st pic is perf. fit. The 2nd is a short arbor. The 3rd is a too long arbor.

 

[Dragoon]

Thought I would reply to my on post before it gets off the front page. All I'm asking is for simple check of 2nd and 3rd gen. guns. Is this really this hard for someone to check?
Dragoon

 

[jbmi]

I have a 2nd Gen Third Dragoon, as you described it, mine turns flush.

 

[oakridge]

Apparently it's too difficult for most owners to do. I would happily oblige, but I don't own any.

 

[Dragoon]

Thanks for the input guys!!
So, jbmi, you made sure it went in all the way and then swung the barrel assy down and it met flush? That's great info.

oakridge, Thanks for the support, I wish you had one too !!

 

[steg]

I'm curious. Please enlighten me. What is the purpose of this test?

 

[dogface6]

I was wondering that, myself.

 

[Oyeboten]

I have a 2nd Generation 3rd Dragoon I can try this with...might be a little while to get it rounded up though...

 

[Dragoon]

Ok.
The Original open tops had arbors that fit all the way to the bottom of the socket or hole in the barrel assy. Most of us that want to shoot those type weapons use an Italian copy that, for the most part, is adequate. The standards they are built to are most of the time lacking in the area of the arbor fitment. Understandably, if they were "hand fitted" they would be much less affordable so, they are sent out the door lacking some spec points. One way to check for an arbor length problem is to insert the arbor into the socket off center until it stops (or better, can not be forced any further) then, rotating the barrel assy to frame, it will either meet the frame flush or will run into the frame (meaning a too short arbor).

If the arbor isn't seated solidly, there will be movement when fired, affecting accuracy. Not to mention the wedge will eventually be beaten and need replacing.

I was wanting folks to check the 2nd and 3rd gen open tops to see if Colts corrected this (since some of them were built with "out sourced" parts). An original '60 army was checked and the result was, the barrel assy would only (fully) go on straight and would bottom out in the socket (verified by the transfer of a light smear of grease on the end of the arbor).

There are ways to correct this problem as well as stabilizing the arbor in the socket (taking away any lat. or horz. movement) making these open tops . . . tack drivers! After the fix, they too will only assemble straight as well (like the originals).

Thank you for your interest and I will be glad to answer any questions.

Dragoon

 

[Boge]

Tuning the Uberti Open Top Revolvers By Larsen E. Pettifogger

 

[Dragoon]

That's a good place to start. It gets the idea of what needs to be done across. I like the idea of totally isolating the arbor from any movment inside the barrel assy. This can be done all at once easier than what is shown in the docs. above.
My open tops are all coversions (.45 Colt Kirst Konversions) and it has made a huge improvement.

Those that have 2nd and 3rd gens that are shooters may benefit from the "fixes".

 

[Hoofhearted]

The 2nd and 3rd gen Colt BP revolvers were made using Uberti parts by various craftsmen at two different facilities. They may or may not pass this "arbor test" based on the individual pistol. The contemporary Uberti made BP revolvers DO NOT and the Pietta ones do.

HH

 

[old tanker]

I had an Uberti open top where the arbor fit was unsatisfactory. I sent it to Spring Creek Armory(LeverActionBill on this forum) He built up the arbor by welding and set the fit as it should be. Installing the wedge does not cause big changes in the cylinder gap now. I just sent him two more Uberti repoductions, a '51 Navy and a '60 Army for the same issue. Good work, fair price, and reasonable turn time.

 

[sourdough]

I had an Uberti open top where the arbor fit was unsatisfactory. I sent it to Spring Creek Armory(LeverActionBill on this forum) He built up the arbor by welding and set the fit as it should be. Installing the wedge does not cause big changes in the cylinder gap now. I just sent him two more Uberti repoductions, a '51 Navy and a '60 Army for the same issue. Good work, fair price, and reasonable turn time.

One does not need to go to that extreme. The proper amount of shim washers secured in the arbor recess will work just as well, and there need not be any modifications to the arbor, should you wish to resell to a picky buyer, and you can do it at your kitchen table. The buyer won't have a clue as to the shims.

If you have another barrel for the same pistol, the process can be repeated and no one will be the wiser, no mods to the arbor, and you will have good functional shooter.

The setting of the wedge should have NO change in the barrel/cylinder gap assuming proper arbor/arbor recess fit.

Regards,

Jim

 

[LeverActionBill]

Jim. Thanks for piping in on this.

I had considered to cut a brass disc and jam-fit it in the frame so the arbor would bottom out - but that would require a reamer to cut it trace by trace until the arbor fit perfectly or to remove it completely.

My next best remedy employed a mild steel weld, which could be removed by filing to bring the arbor back to its original state since the arbor is much harder than my weld. And my weld could be reduced one thou at a time until it fit perfectly.

I have a feeling OldTankers Conversion will see plenty of use - negating the realistic notion of selling it at a premium.

 

[old tanker]

...The setting of the wedge should have NO change in the barrel/cylinder gap assuming proper arbor/arbor recess fit...

Agreed, and while there is more than one way to skin that cat, this was the one I chose.

 

[Kurusu]

And... Don't call me Shirley.

Couldn't resist.

And... only have Ubertis and they don't pass the test.

 

[LonesomePigeon]

I have arbors both ways. Shimming the bottom of the hole is very simple using washers, shim circles and JB Weld and it allows one to use multiple barrels. Welding the arbor is also very good because it will never fall out like a shim can and most people only use one barrel anyways.

 

[VoyPescado]

Interesting thread. I’ve never heard of this before now. Makes perfect sense. Jumped out of bed to check my 1861 2nd gen and with the arbor fully bottomed out the assemble rotates perfectly flush with the frame. Also, thanks for reminding me how much I like that ‘ol cap buster. I need to get out and shoot it more often. Great guns all around in terms of fit and finish these 2nd gen percussions.