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There is an indentation in the Army Special above the cylinder gap. Someone told me this is a holdover from when the .38 special was a black powder cartridge. I was told that this was to stop the black powder residue from cloging the cylinder. Is this true? Do other models of Colts have this also?
 

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The dished out area is there to prevent gas from cutting the top strap in the same area. It is a common feature on most revolvers, but I do not know if every Colt revolver had it.
 

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Thanks JudgeColt. I have a number of revolvers and handled more but I have never seen this feature except on the Army Special. Can you name any other types offhand?
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by McClure:
There is an indentation in the Army Special above the cylinder gap. Someone told me this is a holdover from when the .38 special was a black powder cartridge. I was told that this was to stop the black powder residue from cloging the cylinder. Is this true? Do other models of Colts have this also?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi... Colt's Model 1889 DA revolver, Colt's Model 1892 & Model 1894 New Army Revolver, Colt's DA Model 1895 New Navy revolver, All the army contract models (1896, 1901, and 1903) and Colt's USMC Model 1905 revolvers all have this feature. These models all preceeded your Army Special Model... Just out of curiousity is your Army Special's serial number below 300000? Bob Best
 

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Thanks for the info, Coltdaguy. To answer your question, no. My Army special serial number is 480xxx. Do the Offical Police models have this feature?
 

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I think the dished out area is a common feature on Pre-War revolvers, and may have been dropped Post-War. Without digging out all my Colt revolvers, I just grabbed three that were easy to access to check. My 1928 New Service Target and my 1929 Officers Model both have the dished out area. My low three-digit Python does not. Since the OM and Python are the same frame, that lends support to my theory that the feature was Pre-War only. Therefore, whether an Official Police would have the feature may depend on the age of the OP.

Anyone have time to check more revolvers of all ages?
 

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Not a "definative study",but a quick check out of these post war Colts saw NONE with the frame indentation as talked about; .22 Cobra,.32 Courier,Marshall,2" O.P.,4" O.P.4 inch & 6 inch ".357s" .22 Trooper,6".22 O.P. and 4" .22 O.P. May well have been another cost saving measure to speed up production & save costs,such as latch no longer checkered,simple one screw & spring detent for crane retention,and general decline of checkering quality on stocks,and non nickle screws for the stocks. Hey,"cents' make sense" to the CPAs! Bud
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by McClure:
Thanks for the info, Coltdaguy. To answer your question, no. My Army special serial number is 480xxx. Do the Offical Police models have this feature? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks for the S/N info... My specialty is the Colt DA New Army and New Navy models and US Military Colts. I don't have an Official Police civilian model either pre-war or post war, but I do have a couple Colt Commandos, neither of which have the indentation. I also have a pre-war Officer's Model s/n 626xxx. It doesn't have the indentation either... so, the indentation change must be something that occurred between the Army Special model and the Official Police model... Haven't researched the Army Specials far enough to say just where it may have occurred... I have seen the indentation on some pre-war single actions... mine are nothandy to check which ones right now and neither are my civilian model New Services... Hope that helps. Thanks again for the s/n info... Have you ever seen an Army Special with a serial number below 300,000???
 

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I have a "transition" New Army,#2890xx. in 32/20. The Transition guns have all the features of the New Army & Navy(rotate the "wrong way",sideplate on the "wrong side",BUT the trigger guard is NOT rebated. Gun dates from 1907.Army Specials began at #291,000 in 1908,so as you asked,Bob,theyd be very rare. Bud P.S. Besides the guns mentioned in my earlier post,my New Services have the indentation by the forcing cone. Hope this helps.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lonewolf:
I have a "transition" New Army,#2890xx. in 32/20. The Transition guns have all the features of the New Army & Navy(rotate the "wrong way",sideplate on the "wrong side",BUT the trigger guard is NOT rebated. Gun dates from 1907.Army Specials began at #291,000 in 1908,so as you asked,Bob,theyd be very rare. Bud P.S. Besides the guns mentioned in my earlier post,my New Services have the indentation by the forcing cone. Hope this helps. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Lonewolf... Thanks for the info on you Colt DA New Army transition model... I have s/n data on the DA New Army and New Models into the 293xxx serial range in my database, but the lowest Army Special Model info I have is 301xxx... I think Colt skipped to 300,001 when they started the Army Specials... Whenever I see one, I always check to see what it's serial number is... Thanks for the info! Bob Best
 

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All of my pre-war Colts of all frame sizes have this indentation. I checked New Services, pre-war Police Positives,my pre-war Police Positive Special, my Army Special, as well as my pre-war Official Polices and Officer's models. They all have it. The feature was deleted after WWII. I consider it just like when S&W eliminated the pinned barrel and recessed chambers. Like P&R, it's not necessary, but an extra step that shows more fitting. As stated above, this dished out area is to prevent gas-cutting.
 

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I have observed the recessed area above the forcing cone in numerous prewar Colt DA revolvers from the 19teens, 1920s and 1930s. The Colt DA revolvers which I have seen from the decade of the 1900s (at least not during the early 1900 decade) do not have the dished out, recessed area.

Since the recessed area is in exactly the area which would be affected by flame cutting, IMHO, it was put there to reduce or eliminate flame cutting. I have never seen evidence of flame cutting on one of those dished-out areas.
 

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COLTDAGUY, you quote like sh*t. What's up with that? Are you using an Apple or something?
 

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COLTDAGUY, you quote like sh*t. What's up with that? Are you using an Apple or something?
If you note the dates on those posts they are from 2004. I think the old servers quoted things in a different format.

Holy thread necro Batman.
 

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I have never seen evidence of flame cutting on one of those dished-out areas.
Hi Collects,

That reminds me of the story about the guy who ate hot sauce on his chocolate cake. When asked why, he said, "Because it keeps the elephants away. Have you seen any elephants around here lately?" ;)

I don't think that you would have seen any flame cutting on a flat top strap, either. Pre-WWI cartridges, especially black powder ones, don't generate enough pressure to cause much flame cutting. Even pre-WWII cartridges, except for the .357 and hot handloads, wouldn't have much, either. I think its purpose was as a receptacle for black powder fouling to prevent malfunction if the gun was shot a lot before cleaning. It originated on the Colt SAA, and it was kept around on that and other models until WWI, first due to black powder cartridges, and then due to inertia. When retooling after WWI, somebody decided that it just wasn't needed anymore.

Two more points - why would anyone carve a hole that big to solve a problem that would have resulted in a much smaller hole, even if it had existed? Also, l have seen early literature describe the cavity as a "fouling cup".

Best Regards,

Buck
 
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Yes I have always heard it referred to as a "fouling cup". Do a google search of this and will come up all over the place.
 

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Finally, a name for the "dished out"/"indented place/"scooped thingie" on the top strap....the fouling cup. Thank you gentlemen, I knew there was a proper name for it :)
 

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I always heard this lozenge-shaped cutout referred to as a "fouling cup." l think it was for allowing black powder residue to accumulate when the gun would go for many shots without a thorough cleaning. I'm not sure I understand why black powder would produce a hot gas/flame cutting problem while smokeless powders would not.

I really think the depression is more of a trash can than a clever design to minimize metal damage.
 
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