Avoiding Turn Rings
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You can "help" limit turn rings on the older Colt action models like the Python and Detective Special by rotating the cylinder so when you close it it locks without needing to be rotated any farther.
In the real world any revolver that's used is going to get a ring unless with the Colt's you're an absolute fanatic to the point of mental illness about it.
In the real world any revolver that's used is going to get a ring unless with the Colt's you're an absolute fanatic to the point of mental illness about it.
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123 Posts
I thought if everything is perfect and the bolt retracts and then drops into the notches, just right, that a ring won't form? I just checked and my old Cobra has small nicks and scratches but no ring. Sorry had to ask.
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It's just like dfariswheel has said. You're going to get a ring at some point unless you are a complete fanatic about it, and that (to me anyway) just takes a lot of the fun away.
Some guns are timed that way from the factory. Ruger single actions for example. My two Pythons have the ring because I've shot them both. It's now a used gun and the ring doesn't mean diddly on a used gun. I also have a Colt SAA that was made in early 1975 and has no ring at all. I'm the second owner and we've both treated this gun the way it is supposed to be treated and that's not allowing the hammer to go forward from anything but a full-cock position.
I hope that helps.
Just my two cents for what it's worth.
Bud
Some guns are timed that way from the factory. Ruger single actions for example. My two Pythons have the ring because I've shot them both. It's now a used gun and the ring doesn't mean diddly on a used gun. I also have a Colt SAA that was made in early 1975 and has no ring at all. I'm the second owner and we've both treated this gun the way it is supposed to be treated and that's not allowing the hammer to go forward from anything but a full-cock position.
I hope that helps.
Just my two cents for what it's worth.
Bud
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What puts the line on the cylinder is the locking bolt dragging on it.
S&W, Ruger, the newer Colt's like the Mark III-King Cobra and most other revolvers are designed to allow the bolt to ride on the cylinder for most of it's rotation.
These guns WILL get a line, and will get it fast if the gun is used at all, because that's how they're designed to work. You see brand new S&W's straight from the factory with a line beginning to appear.
Theoretically, if you're very careful you could largely limit the line formation on the older Colt's. What makes the line on the Colt's is when closing the cylinder it doesn't lock, or at least put the bolt in the cylinder ramp or leade. When you rotate the cylinder to lock it, the line starts forming and sooner or later you have a line on the cylinder.
So, if you're an absolute fanatic about how you close the cylinder you could greatly limit formation of a drag line.
I understand what you are saying with the rest of your post, but just wanted to clarify for others that a correctly timed Python will not develop a turn ring just from shooting (assuming the cylinder is pre-indexed before closing).
BTW, once you get in the habit of pre-indexing the cylinder and holding back the cylinder latch it becomes second nature with time. I put the gun in my left hand, hold the latch back with my left index finger, and use my right hand to pre-index and close the cylinder.
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29 Posts
Life IS too short.
On a properly timed double action revolver, try pulling the trigger very sloooooly and watch/listen to the bolt.
The bolt will be pulled down from the cylinder recess, and at some time before the hammer is released, the bolt will spring back up.
When this happens depends on the design and trigger contact point on the bolt, bolt return spring and fit.
Some will spring back to contact the cylinder earlier than others. Some will be early in the rotation, some in the channel leading to the locking recess. The channel is seldom machined or polished as well as the rest of the cylinder.
Proper timing is when the hand continues to rotate the cylinder, with the bolt riding on the cylinder or in the channel, locking the cylinder into battery prior to hammer fall. You may notice the bolt will drop into some chamber recesses earlier or later than others due to the hand, cylinder ratchet geometry for that chamber. Short hands or worn/deformed ratchets are common on older guns which allows the hammer to fall before the chamber is locked into position.
Or said another way, the bolt will drop into the cylinder alignment recess (stopping and locking the cylinder rotation) sometime before the hammer is released from the double action sear. Geometry usually means the hammer will release earlier when cocking double action as opposed to catching the single action sear when thumb cocking in the cylinder rotation, bolt locking sequence. If lockup is out of time single action, it will be more so double action.
In addition to what others have said about indexing the cylinder prior to closing I add this, to eliminate a drag line on collectible guns you can help alleviate drag lines by cocking the gun with either the hammer or trigger until the bolt retracts from the cylinder recess. Then using your other hand to manually index the cylinder into alignment with the barrel. Continue cocking the gun, and when the bolt is released from the trigger, it will fall into the cylinder recess with no rotational drag.
Another way is to make sure the bolt itself has no burrs or sharp edges that will cut into the bluing during rotation. While not full proof, it does help. Disassembly and careful polishing of the bolt is required.
One thing that drives me nuts is when someone will cock, either single or double action, the gun as fast as they can like they are trying to win a race. The rotational momentum of the cylinder that the bolt has to stop is greatly increased and just abuses the gun. I can get a gun into battery with less than half the trigger pull (distance) using just the cylinder rotational momentum if I wanted to.
Drag lines don't bother me. "Un-turned" guns are a myth as they all have been turned at one point or another.
Finely fitted parts don't take abuse well, but when used for their intended purposes, will last many lifetimes.
Like my dad always said, "You don't have to abuse it to use it". Life is too short not to enjoy the good stuff yourself.
On a properly timed double action revolver, try pulling the trigger very sloooooly and watch/listen to the bolt.
The bolt will be pulled down from the cylinder recess, and at some time before the hammer is released, the bolt will spring back up.
When this happens depends on the design and trigger contact point on the bolt, bolt return spring and fit.
Some will spring back to contact the cylinder earlier than others. Some will be early in the rotation, some in the channel leading to the locking recess. The channel is seldom machined or polished as well as the rest of the cylinder.
Proper timing is when the hand continues to rotate the cylinder, with the bolt riding on the cylinder or in the channel, locking the cylinder into battery prior to hammer fall. You may notice the bolt will drop into some chamber recesses earlier or later than others due to the hand, cylinder ratchet geometry for that chamber. Short hands or worn/deformed ratchets are common on older guns which allows the hammer to fall before the chamber is locked into position.
Or said another way, the bolt will drop into the cylinder alignment recess (stopping and locking the cylinder rotation) sometime before the hammer is released from the double action sear. Geometry usually means the hammer will release earlier when cocking double action as opposed to catching the single action sear when thumb cocking in the cylinder rotation, bolt locking sequence. If lockup is out of time single action, it will be more so double action.
In addition to what others have said about indexing the cylinder prior to closing I add this, to eliminate a drag line on collectible guns you can help alleviate drag lines by cocking the gun with either the hammer or trigger until the bolt retracts from the cylinder recess. Then using your other hand to manually index the cylinder into alignment with the barrel. Continue cocking the gun, and when the bolt is released from the trigger, it will fall into the cylinder recess with no rotational drag.
Another way is to make sure the bolt itself has no burrs or sharp edges that will cut into the bluing during rotation. While not full proof, it does help. Disassembly and careful polishing of the bolt is required.
One thing that drives me nuts is when someone will cock, either single or double action, the gun as fast as they can like they are trying to win a race. The rotational momentum of the cylinder that the bolt has to stop is greatly increased and just abuses the gun. I can get a gun into battery with less than half the trigger pull (distance) using just the cylinder rotational momentum if I wanted to.
Drag lines don't bother me. "Un-turned" guns are a myth as they all have been turned at one point or another.
Finely fitted parts don't take abuse well, but when used for their intended purposes, will last many lifetimes.
Like my dad always said, "You don't have to abuse it to use it". Life is too short not to enjoy the good stuff yourself.
Thanks Ishouldknowbetter and special thanks to A1A for the thoughtful and comprehensive response. You both provided the information I was seeking.
Now about being an absolute fanatic to the point of mental illness, I plan to check myself into a suitable facility before I become a danger to others. I just hope they support WI FI so I can stay in contact with my pals here on the Colt Forum.
Mac
Now about being an absolute fanatic to the point of mental illness, I plan to check myself into a suitable facility before I become a danger to others. I just hope they support WI FI so I can stay in contact with my pals here on the Colt Forum.
Mac
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8,298 Posts
aw, a straight jacket candidate. they have Wi Fi, but bring an iPad.. you can use your nose for the touch screen navigation. Otherwise is punishment. They bring in SAA's lowering hammer at the halfcock.. spinning cylinders and slamming them shut on 4" Pythons if you don't "cooperate" 
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