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We continue to get inquiries regarding the originality of Colt boxes , labels , hang tags , manuals , etc . More than once it has been suggested that we have threads showing a pictorial history of original packaging . There are members that are for and against this . In a nutshell the opposition main concern is that we are instructing the fake box people how to perfect their product . The pro-box thread side is that it gives the average collector good information that may help to avoid a costly mistake .

Basically collector guns have been faked for what , maybe 100+ years on certain early models . Not unlike phony artwork , coins or any other collectible , guns are reblued , rebarreled , then roll marks , proof marks , inspector marks , etc are also faked . The advanced collector can and does usually spot this as shown here on Colt Forum almost daily . I'm amazed by the vast knowledge exhibited by our members .
In my opinion the fake box people already have all the info they need which is posted on the many gun auction sites and in the years of online web history . While it's possible that we could be assisting the fakers , I think the benefit to collectors would extremely valuable .

I'm ok with or without threads showing original packaging history It's going to be up to you members to hash this out . Feel free to offer thoughts suggestions on this topic .

Sticky box history thread Yes or No ?

Thank you .
 

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Great question Mitch and I can see both sides of the issue as you've laid it out here.

Ideally, an uninitiated collector would come here and ask a specific question or direct attention to a suspect auction for a more informed opinion. But not all new collectors are comfortable enough to do that, so I see the value of a sticky thread.

Faker's will perfect their art one way or another, perhaps using authentic items as a base for that more so than our sticky threads. I guess I'm in favor of another educational resource here at the Colt Forum.
 

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Really folks, helping the fakers???? Is that all Clawson, Cochran, Pate, Brunner and numerous other reference authors did was help the fakers. I think what is really holding the fakers back is the cost of materials and the manufacturing process necessary to produce an exact duplicate of a 50 to 100 year old box. Just like guns aren't made like they use to be, neither are boxes.

Personally I could care less about the box (even though I keep boxes for guns purchased new), I prefer my guns lived life, not sat around in a box. Boxes just add clutter to the gun room and cost money that could be spent on more guns.
 

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The Consummate Collector
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We already have lots of boxes shown in the photo section with guns so I think the fakers already have what they need. It's a subject that could go both ways. A new member here on the Forum may really just be a box faker who requires more information, something we will never really know. On the other hand its always nice to assist the new collector and it gives him a place to go for advice. When it comes to the pre-war era guns and boxes that I collect it's really easy to spot a fake box as 99.99% of the originals just don't look like they were made yesterday. It's like looking at the face of an 18-year-old person and a 90-year-old person. I will be happy to add to the new thread if one is started. If that happens I would suggest doing it by the model of the gun just like the sticky photo section so that a person looking for a Detective Special box can go to that section.
 

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While I do not consider myself an advanced collector, as I'm not in the market for 99% complete package etc., and am mostly interested in guns to shoot. But I do understand the value of an original piece with box papers etc.
I've been buying guns for many years, like most here and can probably avoid expensive mistakes, although I've made some boneheaded purchases over the years.

So someone new to the collector world that doesn't have the experience and insight as to what to look for. Refinished guns for example, a lot of people just don't see the difference and can hurt a purchase. I learned to avoid re-blued guns because they are harder to sell.

The box topic seems to come up, or has in the past several times about "Fake Box Man," "Sparta" etc., that in some ways a Sticky Thread would be more beneficial to legitimate collectors, especially newbies, then to the unscrupulous who will do their fake boxes whether Colt Forum has a sticky thread or not.
 

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I'm with Cam on this one. I'm not a box collector, but it seems to me that a lot of our members, including myself, are here for the vast and freely offered knowledge of the membership. Why not include the boxes? Just maybe we can put the fakers out of business.
 

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I say no. The box fakers have their place in this hobby too. Many, many people buy these boxes and are happy to get them. Most of these folks never intend to use the box to help them sell the firearm...........they just want the box (Even if fake) to keep it in. It also helps people get a better price on a pistol when buying if their is no box. And finally, you can put all the stickies you want and you still will never know FOR SURE if the box you are getting is fake or not.
 

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Id say the damage has already been done with the books and other information on the internet. I'd love to have a reference here when shopping for a box. My vote is YES.
 
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I agree with Cam that if a sticky thread is started that it be broken down by model. I'd be willing to contribute to a "Detective Special" thread as I have examples of every type DS box ranging from 1926 through 1996.
 

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I was in the no category but now I say yes, go ahead. The “good” fakers already have the originals so no need to worry about them finding out now. I despise counterfeit items and reproductions. It took much of the fun out of colt collecting for me. I say go ahead with box sticky so some new to the hobby can at least have “a punchers chance”.
 

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So to those who say - "The information is out there, fakers already have what they need"-

so then why is a box sticky needed.?? Since the information is "already out there" for all to see??
 

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I vote with Tony on this issue Mitch, and I agree with his comment 100%

I think it's a super idea because the more information the Colt Forum disseminates on an issue the better it is for everyone in my opinion. Another thing too is the fact that the information would be coming from a Forum that has the best reputation for honesty and integrity on firearms anywhere on the Internet.

While I also agree that it gives the "fakers" a little more "ammunition", (pun Intended), those types of people are going to fake boxes and other items no matter what we do here.

Bud


Great question Mitch and I can see both sides of the issue as you've laid it out here.

Ideally, an uninitiated collector would come here and ask a specific question or direct attention to a suspect auction for a more informed opinion. But not all new collectors are comfortable enough to do that, so I see the value of a sticky thread.

Faker's will perfect their art one way or another, perhaps using authentic items as a base for that more so than our sticky threads. I guess I'm in favor of another educational resource here at the Colt Forum.
 

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What an excellent idea Cam, and your wealth of knowledge and contribution in this category would be most welcome.

Bud

.......... I would suggest doing it by the model of the gun just like the sticky photo section so that a person looking for a Detective Special box can go to that section.
 

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Two considerations:

1. Forum software does not provide the best user interface for searching and displaying the identifying features. It's more for replies to threads, with sometimes many pages getting created. What would be the ideal interface? You'd want to quickly have an index, and comparisons of each parameter (Fake here - Real here). Like this early website on reproductions, that still works fine: M3 (www.usmilitaryknives.com/m3.htm) Having to scroll through pages of random submissions by people is difficult. Also, who vets that the features are fake or real?

2. This box identification tool would NOT be for "just members". Any non-member can enter our Forum and review all content, except the for sale section, right? That would be one thing I'd change. Try it: Log out, go to google, then enter "Python Boxes" in the search field. Here, I've set up the link to just search within the Colt Forum. Copy paste into google just the text in parenthesis: ( site:https://www.coltforum.com python boxes ) You will get dozens of Colt Forum posts asking "is this a real python box?" etc. Anyone making the next generation counterfeit will just update their design to remove the "tells" that we ID. Eventually, there will be none. (note to counterfeiter - you need to age the box realistically and not make it look brand new, since we're pretending it's 50 years old.) See what I mean?
 
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