cabin tree lead tester

capstan · 2014-01-16

I saw this on MMCSRET's post. Could you use this device to also check hardness of a jacketed bullet?

WIL TERRY

· #2 · Jan 16, 2014

IT IS probabaly calibrated for use on cast/swaged lead bullets which in comparison to jacketed bullets are about as hard as bubble gum.
Matter of fact, after 60+ years of shooting, working for two ammunition companies, and being on the staff of several gun magazines, I have never heard of anyone nor seen an inquiery from any one asking the hardness of jacketed bullets. HHHmmm...how 'bout that.
And so it goes...

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capstan

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jan 16, 2014

Yes I suppose it would be limited in it's range if it's for lead only. Although could a REALLY HARD cast lead bullet approach the hardness of a jacketed bullet, I wonder.?
I am curious about the hardness of various jacketed bullets. When I was comparing data in all my reloading manuals(for 38 specials), I noticed such differences in max. powder weights for the same jacketed bullet weights. What Hornady calls medium 38 special loads with say Bullseye powder, others show the same load as +P. I wonder if the jacketed bullets they were using were harder or what was the reason for such differences.
I also read where some jacketed bullets are much harder on a rifle bore than others due to the difference in hardness.Some claim,for instance,that the jacket on an WWII armor piecing 30 cal. bullet is much harder than current commercial manuf. bullet jackets.
If i had a simple tester, I could maybe verify at least which jackets are harder than others. This also may (or may not) shed any light on the loading manual data.

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Oyeboten

· #4 · Jan 17, 2014 (Edited)

Bullet Jackets proper are too thin and are covering a Lead Core, for the 'skin' they represent to be Hardness Tested.

Trying to do a Rockwell or kindred Hardness Test, would only dimple the thin Jacket down in to the Lead Core, and, thus, defeat the Test...giving a result then, which would be a combination of the Lead Core, and, the thin Jacket, at once.

You would have to appeal to the Manufacturer to find out what the Alloy is, and, to what degree the Jacket is 'work hardened' or not, in order to arrive at some figure for what the hardness of the material as such, would be.

I do not know, and I have never looked into it, but, if I had to guess, I would guess most Jackets are on par with what one would call 'Half Hard' Copper or 'Half Hard' Brass.

Steel Jackets would be their own thing, depending on Alloy and whether the Jacket Work Hardens for being punched into form ( and probably it does not ).

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capstan

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jan 17, 2014

Yes that makes sense with a device which measures how easy the surface dents/deflects under a certain point load. I guess that's how the cabin tree tester works.
If the cabin tree tester tests the actual bullets and not just lumps of lead,then maybe it still could be of use for testing jacketed bullet resistance to the force applied. But then maybe it's range isn't enough to include jacketed bullets -maybe they would go off the scale?
But, if the jacketed bullets could provide a reading from the tester,at least I could get some idea of the (relative) hardness/resistance to the tester between various jacketed bullets. Hardness may not be the right term though, because the tester would give a reading on the resistance to denting of the bullet which include the resistance of the jacket and lead around it / underneath it.
If the tester would give a reading, I could see which jacketed bullets have the most resistance at least. Of course that would still leave out the actual surface"hardness" of the jacket itself.
I was thinking that maybe the handloader manuals data is so different in some cases, because of the above factors for jacketed bullets.

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MMCSRET

· #6 · Jan 17, 2014

Google "Cabin Tree tester" and read up on it. Good site and good people to deal with.

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longranger

· #7 · Jan 17, 2014

Love their mold handles.

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capstan

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jan 17, 2014

MMCSRET said:
Google "Cabin Tree tester" and read up on it. Good site and good people to deal with.

Yes I am going to check them out and see what their range is. If it goes high enough, I may get one.

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Oyeboten

· #9 · Jan 17, 2014

capstan said:
Yes that makes sense with a device which measures how easy the surface dents/deflects under a certain point load. I guess that's how the cabin tree tester works.
If the cabin tree tester tests the actual bullets and not just lumps of lead,then maybe it still could be of use for testing jacketed bullet resistance to the force applied. But then maybe it's range isn't enough to include jacketed bullets -maybe they would go off the scale?
But, if the jacketed bullets could provide a reading from the tester,at least I could get some idea of the (relative) hardness/resistance to the tester between various jacketed bullets. Hardness may not be the right term though, because the tester would give a reading on the resistance to denting of the bullet which include the resistance of the jacket and lead around it / underneath it.
If the tester would give a reading, I could see which jacketed bullets have the most resistance at least. Of course that would still leave out the actual surface"hardness" of the jacket itself.
I was thinking that maybe the handloader manuals data is so different in some cases, because of the above factors for jacketed bullets.

One could set up a method for determining relative resistances of different Bullets, to being squeezed in to the Rifling of a specific Barrel Bore.

And indeed, to my mind, this would not be quite the same thing as the ostensible Hardness of the Jacket material, since even a very hard Jacket material, when thin, will deflect or bend or compress or break along the restricting Lands or whatever, for being squeezed in to the Lead Core by the constricting Barrel Bore/Rifling.

I do not know if this has ever been done, or, if the trouble to do it properly has ever been felt worth the value of what the results would offer though.

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