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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I recently saw a TV program about the Mexican cartels and the Mexican civilians fighting them. What surprised me was how many civilians in Mexico had "nice" 1911s strapped to their hips.

From those conversations and a few others here I was encouraged to took a closer look at what are obviously cartel 1911s. A quick look through GB you can see any number of "Mexican" style guns Colt is producing in 38 Super currently. Which seems ever crazier yet!

USA engraver...
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Factory Colt...just one of many currently being built by Colt in this genre.
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and confiscated guns from Mexican cartels...
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and more confiscated 1911s from Mexican cartels
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and more drug bust confiscated Mexican 38 Supers.
700821
 

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So your inference is that if a 1911 pattern pistol in .38 Super caliber and has custom grips or engraving, it must belong to a cartel or a cartel soldier?

How "are obviously cartel 1911s" identified?
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
So your inference is that if a 1911 pattern pistol in .38 Super caliber and has custom grips or engraving, it must belong to a cartel or a cartel soldier?

How "are obviously cartel 1911s" identified?
I just googled "cartel guns" and looked at what was supposedly confiscated from drug cartels to get the photos I posted. That and seeing Cartel documentaries and recognizing the guns they have available.

So no I don't think any 38 Super, engraved or custom gripped is a cartel gun. I'm not actually stupid. But when I see a Mexican flag and a marijuana motif on a fancy $15K+ 38 Super gun made, rebuilt and engraved here in the states (not as a movie prop) seems the shoes fits.

The confiscated guns are a good clue as to "cartels" as is a serial number that can be traced directly back to the ill fated "Fast and Furious" federal LE scandal.
 

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I like blue or black Colts , but that El Jefe is tits .
That’s older jefe that was engraved afterthought I’d say.
Any new production ain’t part of the Colt limited Edition
To me they’re (newer) 98% gaudy , but besides the point .
They’re being done with the greed to get the 3k+ price tag
of all the originals EL’s (to suckers).Even though the originals weren’t engraved
and wore cheap plastic - I’d like to own one someday...... El Potro
always piqued my interest. The more recent (5yrs maybe) Day of the Dead
would work for me too , but otherwise , original run - OR BUST🏴‍☠️
 

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The Colt factory guns like the El Jefe and Zapata models are hideous. They are about as attractive as the Elvis commemorative guns (and other commemorative guns) sold in the ads in American Rifleman.
Living in SouCal, it is a common observation at gun shows to see people who may be Mexican nationals and hear them speaking Spanish buying .38 Super ammo and .38 Super Colt magazines. There is no inspection going back over the border at Tijuana or Otay Mesa so my guess is that is where those items are bound.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
"There is no inspection going back over the border at Tijuana or Otay Mesa "


interesting...
 

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I've seen images of similar Colt .38 Supers; in the hands of Cartel members. The tip of the ice berg; their select fire and long guns are equally ornate and embellished. The collection of exotic autos and lions, tigers, leopards as "pets"; lavish homes, stacks of cash. Anyone remember the room stacked with cash?

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Lot's "O" Cash...

With that much cash floating around having a gold plated fancy engraved Government Model or a Barrett Semi-Auto .50 Browning; or for that matter - owning the government of a city or even a state in Mexico is believable. Just let me load up a few range bags of hundred dollar bills...!
 

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Think about this...

To some, the engraving isn't their cup of tea, but to the narcotrafficante ordering the work, it's a thing of beauty and a joy to behold - same's true of the gold-plated AK.

When I was working 'down South' we started wondering if anyone owned something in Basic Blue, because the plated stuff proliferated.

These were more like a 'badge of honor' - they were bold and gaudy - just like the men who carried them.
 

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The Arabs started this style of weapon ornamentation [not the Cartels] with the Arabesque style of gold inlay and ornamentation. When the Moorish Arabs [the Berbers] invaded the Iberian peninsula in 711, along with Sicily. The Arabs brought Arab architecture, art, culture, a love of gold ornamentation, and their love of ornately decorated weapons. The Spanish and Portuguese took that style with them when they invaded and conquered part of North America, and all of Central and South America. The Arab influence is well demonstrated in the National Museums of Madrid, Seville, Granada, and elsewhere. The last Arabs weren't forced out of Spain in 1492.

When the Mexicans declared their independence, Colt revolvers and automatic pistols were well respected and the Mexicans began decorating them to their ornate cultural taste. The English have a scrollwork that is demonstratively British style, the Germans use an oakleaf style of engraving, the French prefer a floral/vine style of scrollwork, etc. These patterns go back to the early Renaissance and obviously preclude narcotics cartels.

Samuel Colt loved engraved handguns and gave them away to influential people who could help his company get contracts or promote his weapons. His corporate descendants have done the same thing. One cannot buy a handgun in Mexico without a government permit and must buy all firearms from a retail store that is owned, managed, and run by the Army. Mexican officials can get such weapons, along with Admirals, Generals, senior officers, police, the judiciary, and some government officials.

Colt, having a fanbase throughout the Western hemisphere and both sides of the border, sells Mexican themed M1911 pistols to Americans [yeah, some Americans do have Latin American ancestry] and Mexicans alike. The .38 Super was the border caliber favorite since it was not a military caliber and openly for sale in Mexico. Keep in mind that J.M. Browning and Colt had an agreement with FN Herstal and they divided their sales territories. The New World was covered by Colt, Winchester, and Remington; while FN Herstal sold to Europe, Africa, and Asia through the FN market.

You may not like a certain style of firearm, nor a certain style of engraving, but the buyers of such weapons are not cartel members and to assume that they are is rather narrowminded. Cartel members carry Glocks, MINIMIs, and "La Cincuenta" for their dirty work, not an etched or engraved Colt. Many in the cartel hierarchy wear bespoke suits, drive very expensive autos, and have attended prestigious universities for business training - they aren't slinging "rocks" on the street corner. Mexican citizens buy these pistols as their version of a Texas BBQ gun and because it is a status symbol as much as being a landowner and rancher there is.

I worked the border for an alphabet agency for years and frankly, you are wrong in your assumptions.
 

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Living in SouCal, it is a common observation at gun shows to see people who may be Mexican nationals and hear them speaking Spanish buying .38 Super ammo and .38 Super Colt magazines. There is no inspection going back over the border at Tijuana or Otay Mesa so my guess is that is where those items are bound.

There is inspection for arms trafficking going into Mexico from the US and both governments are looking for weapons, ammo, and other prohibited items. The problem is we had a government program that wrongly flooded Mexico with weapons and then stopped tracing them. The Mexicans are not a wealthy nation and lack the resources the US has. Corruption is present and they are trying. We have plenty of corrupt FBI, CBP, ICE, and other officials ourselves.

Guessing at what is happening does not make it true. People who speak Spanish may well be your neighbors.
 

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"In Mexico City, the military has a museum used to train officials, diplomats, and cadets about the war on drugs. One room of the museum is dedicated to narco culture. It depicts one cartel member dressed in a garish shirt, cowboy hat and belt buckle. A row of glass cases are filled with seized weapons. "

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No one was ever held accountable for the Anti 2nd Obama admin.'s "Fast and Furious" gun running operation that armed the Cartels and got hundreds of innocent Mexicans killed at least two American Leo's killed- its a G.D. national disgrace.


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Katie Pavlich's book is a great source on the false flag operation and spells it out clear.
 

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Plus Katie Pavlich is absolutely gorgeous.
 

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I think Colt shows no class having offered and still offering such, "Macho'ed Up" 1911's. Either by themselves or through partners such as Talo. The whole theme of these guns seems wrong to me and especially wrong to our courageous law enforcement agents who have to deal with the scum bags that seem to appreciate them too.

And if you are a Colt collector, I am not referring to you. However, maybe you should think about these color tin plated, "Macho guns" before you add one to your collection. There is really nothing good about what they are glorifying.

From Aztecs that cut the hearts out of their own people to, "Big Boss" men that will destroy anything to feed their greed.
 

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Honestly - do you think Colt cares?

Or TALO?

They sold the piece to someone and after that, 'someone' engraved it;

Do you think all those Texas Ranger BBQ guns were engraved in the US?

Hardly...

Mexico has long had quality jewelers and engravers and their work is far less expensive than their American counterparts, so guys with a taste for bling and a thinner wallet naturally would opt for economy and they did.
 

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Therein is the problem. Colt and Talo do not care. And, that to me is sad. I am talking about the way they leave Colt / Talo before they have more "Bling" added to them.
Aztec+Jag+Azul+(1+of+2)+copy+copy.jpg
TALO+7x10ColtDragonFRONTp.jpg
TALO-ColtAztecJagKnightFproof.jpg
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So really............... we are going to glorify a group that cut the hearts out of their own people and the Big drug Bosses that are cutting the heads off of people right now ?? Before this Virus crap, I went to at least two gun shows a month. I saw the "Macho" punk type's that were looking for these. With the lack of respect for our Incredible Police Officers that the media and democrats have already caused, why throw gas on the flames with these pieces of garbage.

COLT AND TALO SHOULD CARE!!
 

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I'm thinking that the 38 Super is popular due to the gun Laws in Mexico. Punishment for having a .45 or higher caliber pistol is severe. I'm not saying that the criminals care but probably easier to access within the country. Also, the ornate engravings may be more of a cultural thing than specifically a cartel thing.

Per Mexican law:
Possession or carrying of arms with the following characteristics is allowed, but subject to the terms and conditions set forth in the Federal Law on Firearms and Explosives:

I.- Semiautomatic pistols with a caliber not greater than .380 (9 mm.), but excluding .38 Super and .38 Commander [Comando] pistols and the 9 mm. Mauser, Luger, Parabellum, and Commander pistols, as well as similar 9 mm. models of other brands.[12]

II.- Revolvers with a caliber not greater than the .38 Special, excluding the .357 Magnum.[13]
 

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Great thread.
I see these pistols at gun shows down in San Antonio all the time.

Pretty and interesting but too ornate for my taste. That's true for all engraving on pistols. Cattle brand and western floral too. Beautiful but not for me.

Now, fancy hand tooled leather? That's more like it.
 
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