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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

New to the forum, i had a look through the photos everyones posted in the stickied thread but didn't see what i was looking for and couldn't find anything through the search function.

This is probably a bit of a longshot but i was wondering if anyone has, or knows of a place, that i would be able to find a detailed breakdown of each component piece of a Colt 1851 Navy. I'm in the UK so it's not something i can even try get access to without probably breaking some laws :D

I realise i could probably Google for these to some extent, but even then the shots can be somewhat limited, but i get the impression there's a fair few variations of this gun i'm looking for (correct me if i'm wrong because it would make my life easier for sure if it turns out there was only ever one version of this gun).

I'm looking to make a 3D model of the gun and this would obviously make my life a lot easier when trying to replicate the shapes and general accuracy.

Also i'm not sure how much the Uberti remodel differs from the original but i'd quite like to aim for the original so if there are some big differences that would also be good to know.

I've watched a few disassembly videos but there's only so much you can pick up from those.

Thanks if advance for any help you can give me.

Cheers.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hey, thanks for the replies so far.

@sourdough

I tried to find sites that had proper lists with images for all the parts but never stumbled across Dixie Gun Works, thanks for that link, should be a big help.

I don't actually own the gun, it's just looking to make the gun as a 3D computer model.

@johngross

Hey thanks for that, i managed to search a bit for it and found someone in the UK selling a schematic for that, saves on the postage from the US :)

@Chaparosa

Will sit and read that on my lunch break at work and just understand a bit more about it all. Had a quick skim of the first few pages already i can tell it's going to come in handy.
 

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Contact Henry Krank & Co. phone 01132565167 and they will send you their catalogue free of charge. The drawing you want is on page 155 together with the price of parts.
Another way is t e-mail them sales&henrykrank.com and request a pdf copy of the diagram.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
@Stanforth

Hey that's great, got a hold of the pdf now, good resolution on the images as well opposed to a lot of the low quality ones i found elsewhere.

I wasn't even aware you could get guns like this in the UK. I guess it's not something you get on every high street or anything so if you haven't looked you might not be fully aware.

But yeah thanks for the info.
 

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Many thanks Chaporosa for the link:- THE MODEL 1851 COLT NAVY By Nathan L. Swayze .The variations of the revolver he lists in the article over eighteen, and not considering the Martial variations is quite an eye opener in the production of this revolver by the Col. and its many types that were produced which are out there. A splendid article. Kind regards, ALSS.
 

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Link to basic information on variations: THE MODEL 1851 COLT NAVY By Nathan L. Swayze
Another good book about this is "Confederate Handguns" by Albaugh, Benet, and Simmons (1963), if you are interested in Confederate copies. Very interesting. (I would like to see your 3D version of a J.H. Dance and Brothers .36 pistol.)

If the OP likes this excerpt (above, courtesy of Chaparosa), you need to get a copy of Swayze's " '51 Colt Navies" for the real deal. Not inexpensive but worth the purchase price if you are interested in original Colt 1851 variations. They are getting far and few between.

https://www.amazon.com/51-Colt-Navies-Nathan-Swayze/dp/B0006BQUF2

Got mine 3 years ago for $75. Good luck, sir.

I would like to see your versions of a 3D 1851 Navy given all of the differences that occurred in the original production of 1851 Colt revolvers, and that is not a cut, but rather a curiosity. You might even entertain Confederate copies like Leech and Rigdon, Augusta Machine Works, Columbus Fire Arms Company, et al, all steel framed 1851 copies as opposed to the Griswold and Gunnison and the Schneider and Glassick which were brass framed pistols.

This is just for your study.

If you are doing this in 3D (and I assume not a 3D printer) I would be very interested in seeing your reproductions, sir, in pictures.

I am a dyed-in-the-wool 1851 Navy Type pistol guy.

Good luck, sir!

Jim
 

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If the OP likes this excerpt (above, courtesy of Chaparosa), you need to get a copy of Swayze's " '51 Colt Navies" for the real deal. Not inexpensive but worth the purchase price if you are interested in original Colt 1851 variations. They are getting far and few between.

https://www.amazon.com/51-Colt-Navies-Nathan-Swayze/dp/B0006BQUF2

Got mine 3 years ago for $75. Good luck, sir.

Jim
If you liked the 11 page monograph; you'll love the 243 page book. The price has been steadily going up since I bought my copy for $45 back in 2004 0r 05. At $150, it's still a bargain.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hey again, thanks for the link to the book, $150 is maybe a bit pricey for my currently for just this one project, but at the same time it's something I'd enjoy having, would just have to convince the Mrs first.

Sourdough (Jim) i was thinking about posting my progress for you all since you've all been so helpful with reference and just general info. That's also an interesting thought with the Confederate versions of the pistol, something i wouldn't have even thought to look into. I quite like the brass frame from the art standpoint of getting a few different material variations, but from looking, it seems like the Confederate versions still used a brass backstrap and triggerguard so the material variation would still exist.

Will keep you all posted as i go along with it all, obviously I have the day job as well so progress won't be speedy but i will update this thread when i get around to it.

Thanks again everyone,

Colin
 

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Hi, I read some time back that THE MODEL 1851 COLT NAVY was only made in the 36 bore only and not 44 bore, the 44 bore revolvers that are out there were not made by Colt. Unless the forum members knows different.
For in-depth reference on Colt Model 1851 London Navies see ‘Colonel Colt, London’ by Joseph G. Rosa, ‘51 Colt Navies’ by Nathan L. Swayze or ‘The Book of Colt Firearms- 3rd Edition’ by R.L. Wilson. For values, check out ‘Flayderman’s Guide to Antique American Firearms and their values’ by Norm Flayderman
Kind regards,ALSS.
 

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I wasn't even aware you could get guns like this in the UK. I guess it's not something you get on every high street or anything so if you haven't looked you might not be fully aware.
So, your statement begs the question: If you can acquire a replica or original in the UK, why not just go with that?

Just curious, sir.

Jim
 

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Hi, I read some time back that THE MODEL 1851 COLT NAVY was only made in the 36 bore only and not 44 bore, the 44 bore revolvers that are out there were not made by Colt. Unless the forum members knows different.
Kind regards, ALSS.
Colt 1851 Navies were not made in .44 caliber, but it seems a couple of 1851 Navy experimental (prototype) pistols were made in .40 caliber.

FWIW:

https://www.joesalter.com/category/products/Rare-Colt-1851-Navy-Prototype-Enlarged-Caliber-Revolver

It seems as an exercise in futility as the Navy .36 bore is actually .375/.380, and maybe that's why nothing more came of it.

[The link also describes two experimental (prototype) pistols in .44 caliber on a Navy frame with rebated cylinders, round barrels, and creeping-type load levers (sounds a lot like the precursors to the 1860 Army pistol).]

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Thanks for the further reading stuff ALSS :)

Hey Jim, the main reason is from what i've seen is the replicas are in the £200 region and it's kind of hard to justify that amount when it's just for a 3D piece, in a ideal world i'd love to be able to get a hold of one though, maybe when i have a little extra cash sitting around.

*edit* Sorry replicas come cheaper than that, probably the sub £100 mark but they don't seem to be strippable, and decommissioned versions are £200+ and i'd prefer to go for one of those, as they are strippable.

Colin
 

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Hey Jim, the main reason is from what i've seen is the replicas are in the £200 region and it's kind of hard to justify that amount when it's just for a 3D piece, in a ideal world i'd love to be able to get a hold of one though, maybe when i have a little extra cash sitting around.

Sorry replicas come cheaper than that, probably the sub £100 mark but they don't seem to be strippable, and decommissioned versions are £200+ and i'd prefer to go for one of those, as they are strippable.
Colin
I am sorry sir, but I am having a difficult time discerning your terms. I am going to go to great lengths to assume your term "replica" is a non-firing pistol, as your original post was concerning a 3D version of an 1851.

My idea of a replica is a copy of any C&B revolver that is capable of firing shots like the original. I am not into any faux wallhanger. Maybe that is what you want.

I also am having a problem with your term "strippable". Any actual C&B revolver is capable of being "stripped" (disassembled) with little effort. I have no knowledge about the faux display non-firing copies of pistols, nor do I want to know.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I am now seriously thinking you just want something to hang on the wall.

Jim
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Sorry for the confusion i'll try explain a bit better about what i'm doing and what i'm looking for.

I'm a game artist, there is a link to a few piece of work i've done below just so you can get an idea for what i do. What i'm aiming to do is have an accurate representation to the 1851 navy as possible, in 3D, that can go in my portfolio. The plan is to recreate each piece and have it so the gun can be animated to show the disassembly and possibly the action of the weapon.

https://www.artstation.com/artist/colins

The link below is a replica (the ones you don't want to know about so i wouldn't click the link :) ), in the sense of it in some way looks like a navy 1851, it won't fire and most likely the pieces that it's constructed from, at least internally won't be accurate to the original, which isn't something i'd like to use for reference.

https://southernswords.co.uk/navy-revolver-usa-colt-1851-brass-steel.html

The next link is a deactivated version, but it has a steel rod merged into the barrel and the cylinder is filled in a way so it can't fire, UK gun law requires this so you can own the weapon and not require a firearm license for it. This as a piece of reference would be perfect, but this is where the price starts to jump up a bit and it's a bit tricky to justify that cost even though i would know i'm getting something that i would get accurate reference with.

Uberti- GunStar

I did come across one that isn't deactivated in the UK that was cheaper than the deactivated one linked above, but at that point i need to look into getting a fire arm license, which is money, background checks and with my job i can move around a bit so it would be something I have to declare every time i move and that seems to be getting a little excessive just for some artwork.

Sorry about the terminology confusion, when i said replica i meant a non firing piece that was meant more, as you said, something to put on your wall. And when i said strippable i did mean disassemble.

I hope that clears that all up. Sorry if you feel like i've wasted your time in anyway. I figured coming to a Colt forum would be the best place to get a solid idea for the weapon and get a good final result

Cheers,

Colin
 

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Don't worry about the cost of a Firearm Certificate. You would need a 'Reason to possess', suitable security, full membership of a Home Office approved Club (that would take at least 6 months) and then a wait of many months to receive your certificate.

Stick to a replica, the best would be a deactivated shooter. The best financial bet would be to buy an original gun, no licence needed in the UK then sell it when you have finished. This would require an investment of between £1,500 (for a rough one) and £2,500 for something reasonable but you could even make a profit.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hey Stanforth thanks for the info i wasn't sure on the time it took to get a firearm certificate and i imagine trying to get one "because i want to do some really accurate artwork" wouldn't be on their list of good enough reasons :D.

Yeah sadly i don't have that kind of money kicking around so i'll need to just base everything off of reference images. It would be nice to be able to have it physically in front of me of course but in this instance yeah i think lots of photos/schematics etc and hopefully get something that looks right in the end.
 
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