[Oyeboten]

Is there a Mexican stamping or inscription?

Very interesting!

 

[Oyeboten]

Hi DadDuck,


That is so cool!

I vaguely remember knowing about these, but, I have not thought of them in ages.

Never seen one in person...what fun to see the images of yours!

I love the old '02 Military Model.


Are you shooting old Ammo in yours? Or, do you Load your own?

 

[Oyeboten]

Yes - no .38 Super, and no 9mm Bergmann-Bayard/9mm Largo.

They fit and fire just fine, but are too powerful for the 'Parallel Rule' design of the early ( non Model 'O' Platform ) Colt .38 Automatics.

 

[Oyeboten]

I expect .38 Super can crack the part of the Slide which fits forward of the Cross-Pin.

I doubt there have ever been any instances of the front of the Slide breaking off, to allow the rest of the Slide to come 'off' to the rear.

Or, this vignette I am sure, exists only in the imagination, and, has never occurred in actual Life.

Or, one would have to keep firing to continue the cracking until finally the cracks would grow large enough to allow the nose of the Slide to start bending upward, which would tend to be extremely obvious, assuming one were somehow failing to notice the damage while it is progressing up to that point.

 

[Oyeboten]

I was thinking about this issue a little. The problem is the spring. If a 1911, or 1905 spring is installed in a 1900 or 1902 I think it would shoot anything safely. The original slide spring is too weak so that the cross bar hits the rear of the frame, or the compressed spring and sends a shock to the slide nose. It may take some adjusting to get the gun to eject properly due to the extra tension but if tuned properly with the correct tension. I don't see why it would not work.

But with a stronger than standard Spring, when cycling, the Slide would slam home too hard, and might cause some problems from stress with that.

Otherwise, for all we know, some or many m1900s, 1902s, 1903s have 'tired' Springs as it is anyway! Even for their correct Ammunition.

As you suggest - a stronger Spring probably would allow the use of more powerful Ammunition, but, getting it tuned just right would take some finesse definitely.

And, given how scarce and expensive these Pistols are any more, I myself would not see any point in doing it ( installing a stronger Spring so as to expect the Pistol to oblige .38 Super ).

If one wants to shoot once in a while or even more than that, I would think that making sure one has an adequate Spring, for the standard .38 ACP Ammunition, would be a good idea.

 

[Oyeboten]

Thanks for the added info rhmc24...


I was suspecting that any progress of nose cracking, would end up interfering with the Cycling function or would impede further Shooting, thus limiting the crack's ability to ever travel far enough, for the entire Nose of the Slide to break off in use, in order for the Slide to come off at the rear, in firing.


An experiment I am still wanting to try, is to fire a round with the Cross-Pin removed, to see how much force the Slide will have in coming off the rear.


I figured I would lay out some Blankets and, fire the one Round laying prone, with the Pistol of course, off to the side so my face or body do not interfere with the flight of the Slide.

I am not even sure if it is possible to fire the Pistol with the Cross Pin 'out', or if it will come into Battery, that way...but, one of these days, I will find out, or, anyone else interested to do so, is welcome to find out ( carefully, circumspectfully, of course!) by simple experiment.

 

[Oyeboten]

Oyeboten, If and when you do this "test" Please video it for us. it would be viewed with great interest by all! Rhmc24 is a true craftsman and as evidenced by his work. I'm Always interested in seeing what he's up to next. Sure wish I could have him move next door!

Okeydoke...

I will have to find someone to bring along who could Video it ( I do not have any means of doing so, and I have no experience videoing anything ).

 

[Oyeboten]

Was it a 1902 or 1903 Hammer that Fernando Lamas used in "100 Rifles". he lined up 4 or 5 indios in one scene and shot 1 round through all of them. pretty impressive even if Hollywood.

I don't know...


But, I do know, that one day when I happened to be demonstrating my 'Sporting Model' to a friend, in my old Workshop...

I fired a standard round into a piece of Architectural Glue-Lam Beam, ( Beam piece was about four feet long standing on end, and, I aimed for a part of it which was about 1 foot up from the floor ) into the wider section of it which was about 12 inches thick... this at a distance of about 25 Feet I suppose, and, the Bullet went through apparently without slowing down a great deal.

I was embarrassed, Bullet richoche'd off of a Heavy Cast Iron Machine behind, and went on to I did not know where it ended up after that...but I was young and naïve then, and, I there-after regarded the Copper Patch .38 ACP Round, as being one likely to over-penetrate...and hence less than ideal for 'SD' carry or for urban situations.

Regular Lead .38 Special seemed to lodge about three or four inches in...so, I was not expecting the .38 Auto to perform so dramatically!


I suppose it could go right on through several people if they were lined up, so long as the Bullet was encountering only soft Tissue sections, and, not plowing through too much Bone.

 

[Oyeboten]

Wow, that is penetration.

I am a hoarder of the early Colt autos. Personally inspected hundreds of the 38acp 1900, 1902 Sporting, 1902 Mil, and 1903 Pckt hammer and have fired all but a few of my many 38acp's. I have NEVER seen a stress fracture in the 38acp. I'm sure it has happened, and I would guess that some pistols have been destroyed because of this ( however that is just my guess). Still, I would never shoot 38 super ammo in my old Colt's.

As far as the 1905 45 is concerned, just as previously mentioned, I own a few have had the stress fracture in the front of the slide. My repairs have looked awful. My friend and I tried anther repair that looked better, but would not take a chemical bluing - so it still looks bad. My guess is that large quantaties of military 230 gr hardball went trough many of these 1905's and/or the spring weakened or is to week for this ammo.

As far as the slide coming off while shooting, I've put thousands of rounds through my early autos and will continue to. Never actually seen it happen. Just like my fishing club, without a picture and witness it doesn't count. Not saying that it didn't happen!

Indeed - with the m1905 Colt .45 Automatic, it's appropriate original Ammunition was some ways less powerful than the later Model "O" Ammunition.

I doubt that hardly anyone ever bothered to insist to stay with the proper Ammunition, for their '05, once the Model "O" came out along with it's Ammunition, as the decades wore on.

Nor have I ever seen any Boxes of early .45 ACP, which seemed to represent in the Label, which .45 Auto they were for, other than, when stating Bullet Weight and FPS, they were for the Model "O".

And or that I think far more people were or remained cognizant, of the Ammunition distinction, of .38 ACP and .38 Super.


I have only seen one or maybe two small 'cracks' on the front of the Slide, forward of the Key, on .38 Automatics.

What I have seen far more of, is Bulged Barrels!


One 'Antique Arms Show' I remember, I saw five Bulged Barrel Colt .38 Automatics...which were being offered for sale by three different Sellers.

Sellers had not noticed this, and, had not removed the Slides to notice it.

When feeling interested to maybe buy a .38 Automatic, I would want to field strip, and inspect, which, in each instance I did with the Seller's permission, and, Lo and Behold, "Bulged Barrels".

I imagine this had resulted from 'squib' Loads, long ago, which got the next round firedon top of the lodged Bullet, without clearing the Barrel.

 

[Oyeboten]

For whatever it's worth after bluing after a weld ---- back in the day when I was busily working on clients mostly pre-1800 guns, I now and then got a job to restore a barrel to its original length. That produced a joint of three different steels, the original, the added piece and the deposited weld. With that I had a joint that showed - whatever I did in finish. Old guns usually wanted a brown or an antiquish bare iron.

Then I was using a stick welder with electrodes least in alloys I could get. Later I used a MIG welder with the standard wire.

I can't recall how I discovered it other than trying thru frustration, but the fix for me is to do my almost finish polish, then heat the welded area and immediate area red hot, then after cool do finish polish.

I had done a weld on a Colt auto and talked with Turnbulls who predicted the weld would show after their blue. Minor weld, I gave my treatment, figured I could touch up somehow, I sent it anyway and it came back hardly visible. Another of my 1902 re-creations had been victim of at least half dozen bubba events of saw, file and grind, which I welded up, gave my red heat treatment. One I missed and it was plainly visible that I just left as-is, something a future owner might guess about.

I've used Turnbull charcoal blue which may or not give a different result from other hot dip blues.

I have been wanting to get a 'TIG' outfit for years now..! every time I get fired up about it, I am too broke...or, when I have dough, I forget I was intending to get one and I buy an old Gun, instead...Lol...

I imagine if one were to Saw out some 'slivers' from a donor-condemned Slide or Frame ( depending ), the Alloy then being identical to the repair needed, one could then Weld up or Weld in using those to supply the material, anneal, ( Heat Treat if appropriate ) and, have no tell-tale 'line'.

What Make/Model 'TIG" do you have? And, are you happy with it?

 

[Oyeboten]

Here are a few photos of a box of 50 rounds 1914-dated Winchester .45 ACP which I think is appropriate for the Colt 1905 Military Model pistol.

Yes those do look as if they may be the correct ones for the Model of 1905.

200 Grain...( though the Label does not state the attributed FPS ).


Cupro-Nickle 'Patch' I am guessing ( rather thean the more usual Copper Patch ).



Now that I am musing on it - What was the Colt in-House Model designation I wonder, for the 1905?


I know I have an early box of .45 ACP...I will try and find it and post an image...but, I kind of think mine is for the m1911/Gov't Model and if memory serves, having in mock Stencil on the Label, "230 Grain...800 Feet per Second" or something to that effect.

I would like to find it, since way the 230 Grain and FPS was written, it was as if they wanted to alert the Customer, to it being for the latter .45 Auto, and, not for the earlier one.