Colt 1911 series 70 Gold Cup National Match - thoughts?

4229 Views 23 Replies 12 Participants Last post by chaosrob, Jul 16, 2013

chez323

Discussion Starter · Jul 12, 2013 (Edited)

2

A guy I know has this Gold Cup match 1911 he's willing to sell. He sent me these 2 pics, said he is the second owner and that he bought it off his friend. He had and lost the box and says the gun is all original even the grips. Said it was made in the 70's. I"m not an expert, figured I'd post the pics and what I know about it here and see what you all have to say. Look forward to your thoughts.

thanks for looking

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ralph7

· #2 · Jul 12, 2013 (Edited)

Well Then. Grips, original?

Judging by how much the guy has lied that we know of, how much else is left?
I hate engined turned parts on guns, so I would give around $800-900 for that gun.
Maybe, the pics aren't real clear. It might bring more..... Nah.

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skipsan

· #3 · Jul 12, 2013

I have a couple of these (70 Series GCNMs) and they're fine shooters. Don't know about the grips being original--could be--but I believe the full checkered walnut grips are the norm. The rear sight has well-known issues, and then there's the collet barrel bushing which cam be a plus or minus depending on whose being asked. The front sight has some sort of bead in it which probably enhances it's shootability, but may not be original.Value: $1000ish, assuming no rust and no internal mods.

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Buckspen

· #4 · Jul 12, 2013

It looks to me like the front sight is painted red or orange. But it may be a replacement. The grips (and grip screws) are definitely replacements. Slotted screws and checkered wood grips with Colt medallions were original equipment on these guns. There is considerable wear to the finish on the rear of the frame and that much wear probably indicates a lot of shooting. The engine-turned hammer may indicate internal "tuning". If I were interested in this gun, I would insist on permission to disassemble it and look for modifications to the hammer, sear and trigger and other parts.
The gun looks well used, which may not be a bad thing if you are looking for a shooter.

- - - -Buckspen

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JohnnyP

· #5 · Jul 12, 2013

My Shooter GCNM had Colt medallion Pachmayr grips for years, but they were not standard. Hex head screws and non-medallion? Betting non-original.

chez323

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jul 12, 2013

It would be a shooter for me, and he's asking $900 for it. Gonna look it over in person on Monday. I spoke with the guy and he seems honest and upfront, has feedback on my homestate forum to back that up. I think the grips were replaced by the original owner prior to his buying it off of him. He says its a great shooter, will shoot way better than he can (his words). How much would a set of original grips set me back if I were to buy it?

skipsan

· #7 · Jul 13, 2013

This is pretty typical of S70 grip listings:COLT 1911 FACTORY Series 70 Walnut Grips : Pistol Grips at GunBroker.com

There could well be some rust under those rubber grips.

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smkummer

· #8 · Jul 13, 2013

I had one until it turned up missing (probably stolen) about 7 months ago. Great shooter, meaning it shot as well as my python and officers models. The rear sight retaining pin is known to come loose but can be fixed. My front sight needed restaking as it was starting to come loose. I actually liked the pachmayrs like what is one your gun for shooting. $900 is fair but I prefer an original hammer over the jeweled.

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JudgeColt

· #9 · Jul 13, 2013

From what I see Series '70 Gold Cups bring (this pistol is NOT a 1911 of any kind), $900 is a decent price for someone looking for a Gold Cup to shoot. All it needs is a set of original stocks and stock screws, which are not expensive, removal of the paint on the front sight and removal and polishing of the hammer sides (remove the hammer and run the sides in the appropriate direction on sandpaper of appropriate grit) to remove the engine-turning, to make it worth more that you will have in it.

The enjoyment had will be part of the profit if you ever want to sell it. I believe "wide trigger" Gold Cups will continue to rise rapidly in market value, which will pull along the shooter-grade guns like this one as well.

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chez323

Discussion Starter · #10 · Jul 13, 2013

Just sent a note to the seller for pics with the grips off, thanks for all the info and suggestions. Will keep you posted on how this turns out.

Bigfifty

· #11 · Jul 13, 2013

I would to venture that it is "all original" to him, but that Colt is not "totally" original from the factory. The grips may be original to the gun, but the Hex screws are a replacement; also looks like the hammer has been jeweled. Even if all this is wrong, it appears there is considerable bluing wear.

I may be wrong, but I wouldn't pay more than $600 as I believe it would be a hard re-sell.

rock185

· #12 · Jul 13, 2013 (Edited)

chez, I owned several original '70 Series Gold Cups. That one displays a worn finish, grips and grip screws that are not original, jeweled hammer, and the frame appears to have possibly been cut for a beaver tail grip safety, since removed. Also, it appears that the hammer pin may have been ground down/flattened for an ambi safety, and that both the hammer and sear holes have been countersunk. Better pictures might prove me wrong, but that's how it looks to me in the seller's rather poor photos. In spite of the fact that so many seem to believe any out of production ~COLT~ is a collectors item, that is not one. If to be a shooter, I would buy a more recent example in better condition. If I'd come across that one, I have to admit I would not be interested at any reasonable price...ymmv

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MtnSpur

· #13 · Jul 13, 2013

rock185 said:
chez, I owned several original '70 Series Gold Cups. That one displays a worn finish, grips and grip screws that are not original, jeweled hammer, and the frame appears to have possibly been cut for a beaver tail grip safety, since removed. Also, it appears that the hammer pin may have been ground down/flattened for an ambi safety, and that both the hammer and sear holes have been countersunk. Better pictures might proove me wrong, but that's how it looks to me in the seller's rather poor photos. In spite of the fact that so many seem to believe any out of production ~COLT~ is a collectors item, that is not one. If to be a shooter, I would buy a more recent example in better condition. If I'd come across that one, I have to admit I would not be interested at any reasonable price...ymmv

Agreed. Only way I'd go here is away. You can find much better examples that are un-tampered with. I think you're better off without this one.

ussmanlovede36

· #14 · Jul 13, 2013

the grips are replacements and the grip screws. the grip safety also seems to be a replacement, the tang is too long. the hammer seems to be jeweled. i think 900 is a little high for this one. but you can get new grips and grip safety. after a careful inspection i might go 800. or you can buy a new GCNM for around 1200. i do like the new ones more even though they are expensive.

JohnnyP

· #15 · Jul 13, 2013

As rock 185 noted, the rear of the receiver has been altered severely. The seller may or may not know of all the problems the pistol has, but it isn't worth pursuing.

JudgeColt

· #16 · Jul 13, 2013

I stand corrected. I did not look carefully at the pistol, and did not realize that the frame had been altered to accommodate the aftermarket grip safety. (I have a "beavertail" grip safety on my "shooter" Series '70 Gold Cup, but it is a genuine Colt item, which did not require alteration of the frame.) While the stocks and screws are an easy fix, the frame alteration is a deal-killer for me, unless the price is low enough (it would have to be REALLY low for me) to make the gun worth it for trading stock or the like.

As others have said, pass on this one.

chez323

Discussion Starter · #17 · Jul 13, 2013 (Edited)

Here's a pic of the gun with the grips removed, does this help confirm any modifications?

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chez323

Discussion Starter · #18 · Jul 14, 2013

I will be using the gun as a shooter, that being said what would a fair price be for it if these mod's have indeed been done?

JohnnyP

· #19 · Jul 14, 2013

If it were me, I wouldn't pay over $650 or so. The modification is permanent and can't be reversed and will always affect the value of the pistol. Below is a photo of what the area looked like before modification. The part that has been removed provided support for the web of the hand during firing. You could always reinstall a beaver tail safety, but that doesn't make it right.

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chez323

Discussion Starter · #20 · Jul 15, 2013

thanks all, I would never have picked up on that. Appreciate all the info........

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