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Discussion Starter #1
I was able to pick up this Colt AR 15 SP1 Monday of thisweek. The rifle dates back to 1977. I have two concerns.

1) The flash suppressor- I’ve handled several SP1’sand seen countless photos. I’ve neverseen one with a suppressor this long. Doyou think it came from Colt this way or has someone added this in the last 35years?
2) The Stock- This is a two position (all the wayin or all the way out). It appears to bealuminum. Basically the samequestion. Do you think it came from Colt this way orhas someone added this in the last 35 years?

I’m pretty happy with the purchase. The weapon is 92-95% with minor wear on thebarrel and one small mark on the receiver. It’s extremely clean including the bore.

Anything thoughts you could render on the suppressor and thestock would be greatly appreciated. And/or general thoughts on the SP1.

In 1977, Vietnam had been over for 2 years.. I found it interesting that there was no foreward assist. Thanks

colt ar2.jpg
colt ar1.jpg Colt ar.jpg
 

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The two position stock and the long flash hider were both common on carbines back in the day; is the flashider pinned/welded or does it simply screw off?
Should have been an A1 by then, so I'm perplexed about the lack of a FA.
Moon
 

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Discussion Starter #3
At the base of the flash hider- about 1/8th of an inch from where it attaches to the barrel, there is a tiny set screw hole (the set screw is gone) to hold the FH to the threaded barrel.
If you look at the pic of the barrel- you can see the set screw hole up toward the top.

Like I said, I just pick this up this week. I've not had time to research much- I could be off on 1977. Here's what is stamped on the receiver.
Model: SP1
Serial: 743XX

Do you think this flash hider is after market or sold this way from Colt?
 

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It looks like the XM177, Colt model 610. What positions are marked on the safety selector switch.
Other than select fire fully automatic weapons made for the military such as the XM177 carbine I don't believe Colt made any semiautomatic only carbines with long flash suppressor either permanently attached or not.
If the flash suppressor is not permanently attached as by pinning and welding it is a NFA weapon and MUST be registered with BATF in your name and a $200 tax paid before taking possession of it or else it is considered contraband which comes with potentially high criminal charges just as with unregistered machine guns. I would get it off this site ASAP and take it back to whoever you bought it from and get your money back. You have a serious situation if it isn't permanently attached and no easy, legal way around it. It either that or keep the lower and throw the upper in the nearest river. Sorry for the potentially bad news.


Short-barreled rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM177
 

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Discussion Starter #5
colt ar4.jpg

Here's a pic of the selector switch. Concerning the suppressor, although there is what to me looks like a set screw whole that is threaded, the suppressor will not move. I suspect it's welded.
Concerning the model- it clearly shows SP1 w/ serial 743xx. What interesting is that it does not have the forward assist.

I had a retired cop friends of mine look at it. His thinks he remembers seeing a colt carbine like this that was issued to his department back in the late 70's or early 80's.
 

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OK, it looks like an SP1 lower. SP1 had no forward assist. The military got it on the M16A1 but it was a few years later before it was available on the civillian market on the SP2. I bought an SP1 about 1978 and it had no forward assist. It may be one of two things. 1- the barrel was replaced with a shorter one and the flash hider welded on or 2- the whole upper was replaced with a short barrel upper with welded suppressor. The barrel needs to be 16 inches including the non removable suppressor to be legal. I con't recall ever seeing one come from Colt like that at least not on the normal civillan market, maybe from the coustom shop. The SP1 carbine had a 16 inch barrel with the standard SP1 rifle short suppressor. Remove the hand guard and look for anything stamped on the barrel.

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?221321-WTS-Colt-SP1-Carbine-Mint-Condition

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/IMFDB_Info:_The_History_of_M16s_in_Film_and_Television
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Colt barrel.jpg Colt Bolt with C.jpg Colt front site.jpg Colt hand heat guard.jpg
I've been out of town- sorry for the delay.
I did measure the barrel- it's 16 inches. See the pic of the barrel- there are ZERO markings. Other than the on the lower, there are two markings. 1- on the bolt, there's a "C" and 2- on the carry handle there's a "C & M". I had time to inspect the inside of the barrel. It is bright and rifling shows very little wear if any.
 

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Someone has added the long flash hider. It is an aftermarket item. The Custom Shop did not offer such a flash hider.

The correct barrel length for a carbine is 16-inches. Early carbines did not have chrome bores, but I thought all Colt barrels had some marks on them. I therefore suspect that the barrel may be an aftermarket barrel, and the rifle started as a standard rifle with the short barrel and collapsible stock added by a prior owner. However, the fact that the stock is metal contradicts that, since the factory carbine stocks from that era are metal, and I do not believe they were available on the aftermarket. Of course, someone could have bought a genuine Colt stock and put it on.

Or the gun is a "real" carbine and the barrel on early guns is not marked. I would have to do some research to be sure.

The forward assist did not arrive until in the 1980s, but I cannot recall the exact date without some research.

I love these early carbines since they are so light.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thank for the detailed info JudgeColt- I agree on the weight. I have a Bushmaster and a DPMS. The Colt is a good bit lighter. I went ahead and put it on gunbroker at a pretty crazy starting bid- it's at 740 now w/ 5 days left. The person I bought it from was not in to guns at all- they just wanted it out of the house. I kind of felt bad about it- I advised them what they had- they insisted, so here we are. Anyway, thanks for the information. It will be in a new home soon.
 

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That's a great looking rifle. I set up my 6920 for that XM look a while back with a slip-over flashhider. Did it sell?
 

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For the OP, as was noted earlier, make damned sure that the flash hider is either pinned or welded; putting a setscrew in that hole and then getting a spot of weld on top should be enough to solve the problem.
I'm inclined to agree with the Judge and assume the barrel has been replaced. Is it chrome lined? Again, it's my impression that Colt barrels were marked with caliber and 'chrome lined', if they indeed were. The upper has the right markings for Colt production.
Moon
 

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You might want to check and see if the flash hider is one of the slipover kind. I had one on my rifle back in the 80's, they were a way to make a 16' barrel look like a short barrel and were quite popular in the 1980's. The lack of a forward assist and the aluminum stock are correct for your rifle, the upper receiver is marked CM which is correct as well.

EDIT: After looking closely at the pics, it does appear that the barrel is short and does not have one of the slipover flash hiders.
 

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Greatbarracuda: the carbine is made to look like the XM-177/CAR-15 w/o the forward assist and with the legal 16" barrel length. For the civilian market, the flash suppressor is welded to the barrel. Mine is of similar vintage. When I converted it to Class III (back in the day when you still could do that) I added the "squad" barrel, like you have on your carbine. The barrel should be slightly heavier/thicker than the stock SP barrel and will accept the .223 or 5.56 round with ease. It was slightly heavier in anticipation of more full auto firing. It's a great looking gun. Is that a Colt 3x scope too? In our neck of the woods, at local gun shows that's a $1,600 carbine (and that's at the low end).
 
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